Do We Have A 'Silly Shit Politicians Say' Thread? If Not, Here We Are

[Talint]

If I am wrong, enlighten me. I am generally willing to admit I am wrong.

Explain to me how forcing unpaid labor to work for the state is literally not slavery.

[Dotsudoku]

They're paid?

[archibaldcrane]

It's unclear whether the prisoners who worked at the governor's mansion were paid (a pittance if they were) or not, it's unclear how they came to work in these roles (is this a perk for prisoners or a punishment?) etc. etc.

This isn't a new revelation, it's literally an excerpt from her book in 1996 - the most surprising thing is that this wasn't brought up during the campaign.

The idea that Hillary (who was, uh, not the governor) "owned" these people is fucking preposterous though lol.

[Talint]

There were prison strikes all across the country last year, often because of unpaid labor. Arkansas stands out.

Inmates may be paid for this work—usually between 12 to 40 cents an hour. But some states, including Texas, Arkansas, and Georgia, do not pay inmates at all.

It is entirely possible that this changed happened later, post Clinton governorship. Clinton does not say otherwise.

But I don't know what to say about a state entity incarcerating people, then forcing them to work for the state itself as labor. If the pittance of pay makes it technically not slavery, then you have found your semantic victory against me of it being not literal slave ownership.

[Tokitoki]

Yeah, I was going to say, she didn't own them. Neither does the state despite them being prisoners.

This would be similar to the prisoners that pick up garbage along roadways, but the possible pay and/or working conditions could be better.

[archibaldcrane]

Lol I didn't know that the 13th amendment abolishing slavery literally still explicitly allows slavery as a punishment for a crime.

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

[Talint]

Prisoners also don't get a choice in the matter. From the article above.

• All prisoners are required to work: As long as prisoners are medically able, they must work, notes the Federal Bureau of Prisons. Various welcome manuals for prisoners also similarly state that inmates must work. (“Work is a necessary part of your daily life while in prison,” notes a handbook for prisoners in Georgia, which does not pay its inmates.) In Texas, inmates who refuse to work, lose their privileges and are confined to their cells for 24 hours a day.

• There’s not really a legal way for prisoners to ask for better wages or work conditions: Though prisoners aren’t necessarily excluded from laws such as the Fair Labor Standards Act, which establishes the country’s minimum wage, they’re not necessarily covered by it either. That’s because courts generally do not consider prisoners to be employees. As a result, previous cases where prisoners have sued for minimum wage have failed. And as an investigation by the American Prospect notes, labor unions are reluctant to represent prison workers, because prison labor produces goods that competes with other industries.

I suppose it is not unreasonable to take the position of "lol Hillary didn't OWN slaves". But she was working in the capacity as a state entity; and obviously had at the very least, influence over the decision to quietly allow this "tradition" to continue. Also, living in a law-and-order-first society, we tend to not think of prisoners as people and deserving of anything other than their fate.

Bill is equally complicit. But since this is the Silly Shit Politicians Say thread and it was from her book, that's why it's here. Especially since the REST of the passage is equally garbage.

edit:

bee tee dubs: Did We Change the Definition of 'Literally'?

[Eurell]

They clean the roads we drive on. Guess we all own slaves guys!

[Melena]

While grossly underpaid, inmates more often then not do want to work as it does get them out of their cells, some social interaction, and money for their canteen accounts as well as to slowly pay off any monetary debts to society. Also a job like that, working on/in the governors mansion would be highly sought after as it means they actually get off jail property, and getting better meals.

Also keep in mind that while in custody, they are entitled to health care (the jail i worked at, inmate doctor/dentist visits were free unless they had something like 30 bucks or more in their canteen accounts in which case it was 2 dollars), access to TV on a limited basis, and other basic amenities. It's not a glorious life, should be paid a bit more then they are, but not also deserving of minimum wage unless we plan on start charging inmates rent.

[archibaldcrane]

While grossly underpaid, inmates more often then not do want to work as it does get them out of their cells, some social interaction, and money for their canteen accounts as well as to slowly pay off any monetary debts to society. Also a job like that, working on/in the governors mansion would be highly sought after as it means they actually get off jail property, and getting better meals.

Also keep in mind that while in custody, they are entitled to health care (the jail i worked at, inmate doctor/dentist visits were free unless they had something like 30 bucks or more in their canteen accounts in which case it was 2 dollars), access to TV on a limited basis, and other basic amenities. It's not a glorious life, should be paid a bit more then they are, but not also deserving of minimum wage unless we plan on start charging inmates rent.

You misspelled "Hillary owned slaves"

[Byrthnoth]

Yeah, but the replacement cost of their labor is minimum wage and that dollar difference goes somewhere (often to a for profit prison.)

[Tyrath]

I mean I think we can think it's a shitty thing to be happening without thinking it's literal slavery.

[archibaldcrane]

I mean I think we can think it's a shitty thing to be happening without thinking it's literal slavery.

I just highly doubt that prisoners would rather be sitting in cells than out working at the Governor's mansion.

[Niiro]

Any practice that incentivizes incarceration should be treated with considerable skepticism.

[kareface]

Any practice that incentivizes incarceration should be treated with considerable skepticism.

https://www.inthepublicinterest.org/...-corporations/

In case you're interested in a related tangent. The article details how many private prison contracts have prison bed occupancy guarantees, provisions which cost the states money if the prison cells sit empty. It creates a monetary incentive to lock up people.

[archibaldcrane]

Any practice that incentivizes incarceration should be treated with considerable skepticism.

Completely agreed.

[Andalusian girls]

Any practice that incentivizes incarceration should be treated with considerable skepticism.

and also children under four shouldn't smoke

[Andalusian girls]

but there may be more positions than A) private prisons are the best or B) Hillary Clinton was a slaveowner

[Niiro]

I mean if I was in a prison in Arkansas and someone offered me a job at the governor's mansion I'd be on that shit faster than you can say "yes, massa!"

[Tyrath]

I mean if I was in a prison in Arkansas and someone offered me a job at the governor's mansion I'd be on that shit faster than you can say "yes, massa!"

You mean if someone offered you slave labor