Maint!

[Buffy]

Yah, but then people could zone in and do nothing, so not a perfect solution either.

[Slycer]

Yah, but then people could zone in and do nothing, so not a perfect solution either.

They just need to set some kind of minimum activity requirement for each tally to get you in for the reward. Like maybe ten "actions" per tally, and they can define an action as a spell, weapon skill, or ability... whatever. Something that doesn't punish support roles and mages. The fact that they patched this so quickly leads me to believe they are actively looking at it, but the patch yesterday did almost nothing to fix the problem.

[Byrthnoth]

I always wonder why they don't just commandeer the Enmity system for points like this. Everyone can generate Enmity and it's supposed to be approximately balanced now. People would have to use weird gear on their mage jobs, but it would be much better than the current system.

[Darkmagi]

Just use a PLD instead of bringing sleepers. Can control all adds and have no real risk of dying.

[Buffy]

Hell, my idle set has -42% PDT on my mage jobs, I won't mind that option.

[Slycer]

Just use a PLD instead of bringing sleepers. Can control all adds and have no real risk of dying.

Yeah, I'm not saying there are no ways around it... you can definitely avoid the need for mages in this. But is it really intended to not require mages and almost punish people for playing mage jobs? I'd have to think not.

The best part is when the reive ends and there are dead bodies that cannot be raised since no one has the spell, lol.

[Xantavia]

They just need to set some kind of minimum activity requirement for each tally to get you in for the reward. Like maybe ten "actions" per tally, and they can define an action as a spell, weapon skill, or ability... whatever. Something that doesn't punish support roles and mages. The fact that they patched this so quickly leads me to believe they are actively looking at it, but the patch yesterday did almost nothing to fix the problem.

The problem with that is that it would be just like campaign. /brd and just sing over in the corner.

[Darkmagi]

Yeah, it's really bad that mages get penalized. Can't believe they released it like this.

[Gwynplaine]

Yeah, it's really bad that mages get penalized. Can't believe they released it like this.

I can. This is the same SE that created Limbus and had to have mages go through twice the amount of bullshit to get the gear.

[NynJa]

I can. This is the same SE that created Limbus and had to have mages go through twice the amount of bullshit to get the gear.

Dont forget that you could actually refarm an entire omega pop while fighting omega

but lets be honest, homam as a whole was much better than nashira.

[arus2001]

You'll never see any kind of standardized reward just because you'll see people bitch about leeches. And while I prefer the concept of forcing mages to do more than just stand around with their finger up their butt waiting to cast a spell, it's also not surprising to see people bitching because they can't do that.

[Kincard]

The problem is that "doing more" actually means "doing less" because mages have to do things other than their actual job in order to rack up the xp. If their goal was to make the content challenging, they should've make the system also encourage mages not to have to melee in range of all kinds of nasty abilities when in challenging fights they're supposed to be standing back.

[arus2001]

That whole "doing your job" line of thinking is exactly why people bitched about Campaign, too. Capping your skills and auto-attacking with sensible gear is hard!

[Kincard]

I don't know what the heck you're on about. Curing still gets you lots of xp in campaign, in fact it got so much XP people started subbing DNC en masse just so they could continuously take damage and cure themselves, or did you forget about that. Bards spamming songs isn't comparable to that at all. I don't get why you're equating afk song spam with a WHM not standing in the range of butterflies spamming Blackout so that maybe they can actually cure those status ailments like their job is meant to do.

If the idea is that they want to make it hard enough that people actually strategize, they need to incentivize things like that by making it so that a black mage or whatever doing crowd control is getting lots of xp for his effort. I guess ultimately it doesn't matter that much right now because 40 people attacking 20 monsters means the wildlife stands no chance, but I don't get how you can defend them creating a reward system that discourages the types of strategies they want the playerbase to use to tackle the content they've created.

[arus2001]

And yet you're assuming I'm saying to never cure or "do your job" or whatever vague anti-hybrid conceptualization you're bringing into this. They're fodder mobs. They don't magically turn into AV the moment a WHM swings a club. Let's not pretend mage food is awesome or that slapping together a haste set is tricky these days. Munch some pizza if you need to and go to town. Pop Mystic Boon if you need some MP. Hell, sub DNC if you want to, too. When the time comes and you find yourself fighting the generals or whatever future NM types Adoulin holds, that's when you can start being a bit more picky about how you engage. But bitching now just because it makes multi-boxing harder or doesn't reward playing your job at the lowest common denominator is just dumb.

[Kincard]

Have you seen how awful the reward for curing actually is? Someone can be doing nothing but curing every single person standing around the area and they'll get only a fraction of what the melees are getting. It has nothing to do with me being against a WHM trying to have fun and clubbing some stuff to death, but rather that the rewards are disproportionate to the point that a WHM taking any time out of meleeing to toss a cure means lowering their xp gain. This isn't even about two-boxing, a main WHM getting the full attention of someone trying to cure everyone is going to be getting like 400 exp when everyone else is getting like 1500 per evaluation.

Apparently "curing everyone" is playing WHM in the lowest common denominator though, sorry about that?

[arus2001]

So, then, how do you propose SE curbs heal cheats? Or more specifically, someone standing safely, lowering their HP via gear, then increasing it back to cure without ever being at risk from a mob? Or are we to then imply that curing yourself isn't important, and that PLDs can just fuck off if trying to do their thing? Like it or not, the system encourages being flexible over one-dimensional. In the end, someone who just stands there and cures should never get as much as someone who both melees and cures or debuffs or whatever the fuck else they're doing to contribute. Cap your skills, get some gear, play. If someone outside your party wants to bitch about dying, it's their fault for not teaming up or teaming up with a bad healer. It's not your job to individually babysit 20+ people no matter how warm and fuzzy it may make you feel.

[Alkar]

So, then, how do you propose SE curbs heal cheats? Or more specifically, someone standing safely, lowering their HP via gear, then increasing it back to cure without ever being at risk from a mob? Or are we to then imply that curing yourself isn't important, and that PLDs can just fuck off if trying to do their thing? Like it or not, the system encourages being flexible over one-dimensional. In the end, someone who just stands there and cures should never get as much as someone who both melees and cures or debuffs or whatever the fuck else they're doing to contribute. Cap your skills, get some gear, play. If someone outside your party wants to bitch about dying, it's their fault for not teaming up or teaming up with a bad healer. It's not your job to individually babysit 20+ people no matter how warm and fuzzy it may make you feel.

No, the system encourages you to switch to a DD class and forget about cures completely. Any time used to stop meleeing and cast cures or use a waltz (or anything else that isn't DDing) is time wasted and exp/bayld lost.

[arus2001]

Slight tweaks to curb that? Sure. No problem. "I don't wanna play that way because I wanna play this way someone said was good on a wiki!" ...eh. Perhaps my old FF traditionalist self is rearing its head again. You know, how often it was better to hold MP for bosses than just spam it on fodder along the way because ethers were rare/expensive.

[Damane]

So, then, how do you propose SE curbs heal cheats? Or more specifically, someone standing safely, lowering their HP via gear, then increasing it back to cure without ever being at risk from a mob? Or are we to then imply that curing yourself isn't important, and that PLDs can just fuck off if trying to do their thing? Like it or not, the system encourages being flexible over one-dimensional. In the end, someone who just stands there and cures should never get as much as someone who both melees and cures or debuffs or whatever the fuck else they're doing to contribute. Cap your skills, get some gear, play. If someone outside your party wants to bitch about dying, it's their fault for not teaming up or teaming up with a bad healer. It's not your job to individually babysit 20+ people no matter how warm and fuzzy it may make you feel.

I want to see you melee on sch while keeping 5 melees hasted, cured to max HP allways, while trying to keep yourself alive, keeping mobs slept and removing status ailments of everyone and managing your MP via convert, aspir II and sublimation. Thats basicly what I was doing 2 nights ago on sch and mind you I was literally cure bombing because when shit hits the fan you need to shit back and there is no time for meleeing. Those were reives in meirad (that rock type zone with snow), yet I got 5 times less the reward then melees, despite the fact I was keeping them alive and couldnt go afk for shit. Something doesnt add up here.

I switched now permanently to BLU, have to do half the work and get 5 times the amount of points, while being totally safe alone. Yeah the system is so totally balanced...