Boston Marathon Bombing: BEAHCAT & BRUINS, 'MURICA

[thetruepandagod]

Killing someone is NOT a humane solution.

If justice has already determined that their life is forfeit with no course of action to lighten punishment, then I would say death by firing squad is much more humane than a slow expensive ride to death where you have no freedom outside of your own mind and even that gets twisted by your environment. Would you also go on to trumpet a cause against putting down dangerous dogs and instead seek to have them caged up for the rest of their lives?

But they still have the chance to live and come to peace with what they did within themselves .... revenge is not good enough.

Prison is not about rehabilitation it's about punishment so them coming to peace with themselves is totally irrelevant. Revenge fuels a lot of prison sentences.

All good that comes of prison is totally unrelated to how the prison system and justice system is set up.

Whether he's executed or killed in prison, either way, he's going to die.

Basically this, the courts have already taken his life away from him. At least do it in a humane and efficient way.

[Tyrath]

Prison is not about rehabilitation

I can't tell if this is a statement about how the american prison system actually is or if it's what you think the point of a prison is.

If it's the latter, you are 100% wrong. If it's the former, I agree with you and I think it's a huge driving force behind why the american prison system sucks.

Regardless, since we're talking about this specific case. There's a reason why life in prison is the default option for a hung jury. There's a reason why the judge can impose a life in prison sentence if the jury chooses death, but not the other way around. Death is considered the harsher punishment.

If you want to discuss why Tsarnaev deserves the harsher death penalty, I'll be happy to talk to you about why I disagree.

But if you want to argue about which punishment is harsher we're gonna have to agree to disagree because I'm not interested in furthering that particular discussion.

[thetruepandagod]

I can't tell if this is a statement about how the american prison system actually is or if it's what you think the point of a prison is.

Both how it is and what it is actually for. There is literally nothing about our prison system that is set up in regards to rehabilitation except for low level drug offenses/addiction. Most prisons since the the mid 80's I believe have cut back massively if not completely removed classes as well so there is no education to be had anymore. Some college teachers do teach at prisons but I believe it's only a handful of states remaining. Prison is for punishment and cheap production of goods.(Prisoners make most military supplies and have even made lingerie for victoria secret and IKEA in the past)

I'm not interested in furthering that particular discussion.

Because you are wrong. Next you will say you disagree with the Civil War because no one should ever kill another. And those were soldiers not criminals. inb4 soldiers know they are risking life, so do murderers.

If it's the latter, you are 100% wrong.

What in your mind do you perceive to be rehabilitatory about prison in the US? Even from an idealist point of view it's nothing more than a glorified time out, there is no betterment, no counseling, no education, no skills. What can you even see in a prison that says "rehabilitation" to you, ignoring all the realities of it.

[Tyrath]

I said you're wrong if you think prison shouldn't be about rehabilitations. I followed that up with how that is what is wrong with the american system because it isn't like that. Perhaps some reading comprehension will help.

[thetruepandagod]

what you think the point of a prison is.

Prison has no qualities of rehabilitation so no I don't consider the point of prisons to be for rehabilitation, they never have been in this country.

if you think prison shouldn't be about rehabilitations.

Prison was never for rehabilitation but yes we should have something specifically for rehabilitation of criminals in this country that extends beyond the mentally insane and drug users.

Both how it is and what it is actually for.

Perhaps some reading comprehension will help.

I answered accurately.

[Melena]

If prison isn't for rehabilitation, then why do they allow you to take classes to educate yourself, offer basic job skill certifications to help you try to find a job when you get out? Maybe the county jail I worked at was an anomaly as those who partook in the various life skills classes had a significantly lower recedism rate than those who sat around, did there time and did nothing to better themselves.

[thetruepandagod]

If prison isn't for rehabilitation, then why do they allow you to take classes to educate yourself, offer basic job skill certifications to help you try to find a job when you get out? Maybe the county jail I worked at was an anomaly as those who partook in the various life skills classes had a significantly lower recedism rate than those who sat around, did there time and did nothing to better themselves.

True for all prisons.

Most prisons since the the mid 80's I believe have cut back massively if not completely removed classes

I am trying to find the articles I had that talked about the various political policies that came about in the 80's which absolutely destroyed educational options for prison inmates. But an actual interest in increased budget towards education for prisoners is coming back since it has been proven to lower recidivism rates and save money in the long term.

As an aside, since this is about a specific prisoner with a life sentence. What is the point of rehabilitation for someone who will never again join the outside world?

Spoiler: show

Or do we want people to eventually be able to say they own a piece of art painted by tsarnaev the same way people bought john wayne gacy's paintings.

[shepardG]

Sometimes good people have to do bad things to bad people tyrth. Doesn't make them bad people. If asked to pull the trigger on that kid, i'd do it in a heart beat. Does that make me a bad person?

[Abandon]

Sometimes good people have to do bad things to bad people tyrth. Doesn't make them bad people. If asked to pull the trigger on that kid, i'd do it in a heart beat. Does that make me a bad person?

winner. Just look at your military. the vast majority of us are good people. we're just in the business of protecting the american interests and people, and if that means some has to go to a grave much earlier than expected, well... night night nigga

[Tyrath]

Using wars and military are terrible examples. Killing is a last resort. The military doesn't kill, or shouldn't, kill people who are no longer active threats. This guy has been taken out of the game. So our military killing in entirely different situations is not a free pass for us to kill prisoners.

[Salodin]

There's a difference between killing and murder. The man in question murdered people, and chances are were going to kill him because of it. There are absolutely good reasons for killing some one, taking a human life is necessary some times.

[shepardG]

If it makes you feel any better Tyrath, think of it as trimming the fat.... and humanity is obese as fuck unfortunately. There's no way that kid will ever do "good" for humanity... he won't ever be an EMT, he won't ever work on DNA splicing to benefit medicine or sciene, he won't ever be a janitor EXCEPT for the prision in which he lives, he won't ever teach other humans how bad the thing that he did was ANY BETTER than by being an example of the punishiment that he recieved (i.e. the death penalty)

[thetruepandagod]

Using wars and military are terrible examples.

What about euthanizing dangerous animals as opposed to locking them up for life? (inb4 they are just animals, please offer something of substance as an argument)

[Tymon]

think of killing as trimming the fat of humanity

psh.. nothin' personnel, kid

[Zeb]

Sometimes good people have to do bad things to bad people tyrth. Doesn't make them bad people. If asked to pull the trigger on that kid, i'd do it in a heart beat. Does that make me a bad person?

Here's you order sir:

Spoiler: show

[Delayed]

Offering someone a life sentence is putting them to death. it's just a cowards way of allowing a person to die.
It is not cheaper to allow a life sentence compared to death penalties, as the current method of lethal injection costs less than 100$ per shot.
the greater cost comes from the court room, and is not something that can be directly tied to the person, but the system instead.

Life sentencing costs tax payers money that otherwise would not be imposed. Do you feel pride in paying for this individuals (and every other one like him) food, bedding, A/C, activities allowed, magazines, newspapers, and any medication he is on (and eventually will be from being in the system, both from psychological and physiological issues stemmed)?
Or are you oblivious to the fact that he and his dead brother killed dozens of people, not allowing those to live their peaceful and innocent lives any longer?
The system is flawed, imposing the death penalty will still allow him the opportunity to live your solution for the next 10-15 years before his turn in the chair and room comes up. You could even visit and read to him in the meantime if you so choose.

[chazzyphizzle]

getting pretty tired of people trying to use the "herp derp it costs money to keep them prison for life" rationale when making a case for killing someone

[Blubbartron]

getting pretty tired of people trying to use the "herp derp it costs money to keep them prison for life" rationale when making a case for killing someone

It's unlikely that people would mention that if people would stop saying "it costs more to kill someone than to put them in prison for life."

[Ksandra]

Offering someone a life sentence is putting them to death. it's just a cowards way of allowing a person to die.
It is not cheaper to allow a life sentence compared to death penalties, as the current method of lethal injection costs less than 100$ per shot.
the greater cost comes from the court room, and is not something that can be directly tied to the person, but the system instead.

Life sentencing costs tax payers money that otherwise would not be imposed. Do you feel pride in paying for this individuals (and every other one like him) food, bedding, A/C, activities allowed, magazines, newspapers, and any medication he is on (and eventually will be from being in the system, both from psychological and physiological issues stemmed)?
Or are you oblivious to the fact that he and his dead brother killed dozens of people, not allowing those to live their peaceful and innocent lives any longer?
The system is flawed, imposing the death penalty will still allow him the opportunity to live your solution for the next 10-15 years before his turn in the chair and room comes up. You could even visit and read to him in the meantime if you so choose.

Let me start by saying I am not for the death penalty period. With that said, you cannot discount the court costs as something "unnecessary." One innocent life being put to death is one life too many. And we know it happens.

You are not going to have an easy time convincing people that the DP would be much better if we just did a first trial, and then shot the accused the next day. Good God, that is not the way I want this country to go at all.

I am all for us finding other methods that are more humane than what is happening now (if we are to do it at all that is). But never ever get rid of these court proceedings.

[Tyrath]

It's unlikely that people would mention that if people would stop saying "it costs more to kill someone than to put them in prison for life."

Actually no. Every instance of that in this thread has been in response to people saying they don't want to pay to keep him alive (at least from me).

Which again goes back to chazzy's point.