Enforcement Actions in Boston

[Tyrath]

No, they did have a specific reason to be searching those houses. That was the area he went missing in. What I'm saying is the perimeter should've been bigger, not smaller.

You'd change your tune if an armed killer who had just been in a firefight with the cops had suddenly gone missing in your own neighborhood, but go ahead and continue to cry "MUH FREEDUMS" since you weren't in any danger.


Edit: Just saw your double post

The question is - how big of an area are you comfortable with the cops kicking down doors? How vague of an "I think he's 'round here somewhere" are you willing to tolerate before they engage in such an activity?

Also, comparing this to a house on fire or a 911 call to a specific address is completely different - in those cases, even if you don't have permission to enter, you know there is an immediate threat/danger on that specific property.

There was an armed killer on the loose. He got into a massive firefight with the cops. Him and his brother were throwing explosives. The WHOLE neighborhood was in immediate danger. I don't really get how people don't understand that.

[Ksandra]

They didn't have specific reason to search any of those houses, and they were wrong about their assumption that he was even in that specific area.

having a reason is completely different than being wrong with that reason.

They had reason to believe he was in that area, they were wrong. Honestly, if the cops came wanting to search my house for a mass murder, I'm all for it. Who gives a shit if a cop sees the inside of your house, if it means possibly preventing more lives from being lost? It's all about perspective.

[Blubbartron]

I think the thing you're missing, Tyrath, is that the kids obviously weren't looking to gun down ordinary citizens. After they executed their little terror plot, their primary concern was getting away. The only people they shot/threw bombs at were people who posed a threat to them. In that context, the cops kicking in doors and pointing weapons at citizens poses more of a threat than the bombers. Obviously they do knock first, but I don't know about you guys, but I have headphones on almost 100% of the time. I don't hear knocks or doorbells unless I'm expecting someone and listening for it. Cops busting in on me sitting at my computer would've scared the shit out of me, and if I were paranoid enough to have a gun handy, who knows if I would've done something stupid or not.

[Ksandra]

I think the thing you're missing, Tyrath, is that the kids obviously weren't looking to gun down ordinary citizens. After they executed their little terror plot, their primary concern was getting away. The only people they shot/threw bombs at were people who posed a threat to them..

How on earth can you say that if they hid in a home and the owner saw them, that owner wouldn't be considered a threat?

[Helm]

Yeah because they shouldn't search the area for people that potentially bombed a crowd of civilians. Whoops they got away, hope they won't do that again before we find them. Also from what I saw there was very little "busting in" but whatever makes you feel better.

[Eurell]

I think the thing you're missing, Tyrath, is that the kids obviously weren't looking to gun down ordinary citizens. After they executed their little terror plot, their primary concern was getting away. The only people they shot/threw bombs at were people who posed a threat to them. In that context, the cops kicking in doors and pointing weapons at citizens poses more of a threat than the bombers. Obviously they do knock first, but I don't know about you guys, but I have headphones on almost 100% of the time. I don't hear knocks or doorbells unless I'm expecting someone and listening for it. Cops busting in on me sitting at my computer would've scared the shit out of me, and if I were paranoid enough to have a gun handy, who knows if I would've done something stupid or not.

Yes, after blowing up 200 ordinary citizens, we should expect them to be totally safe around ordinary citizens, regardless of the bombs and guns they are known to be armed with.

And why would you not be expecting someone to show up? You should be expecting the cops to show up. It's not like this was a quiet lockdown that noone had any knowledge of.

So using your house as an example, the suspect is known to be in the area. They knock, noone answers. You think they should just move on instead of checking to see if the suspect is in there?

[Boyiee]

Also, comparing this to a house on fire or a 911 call to a specific address is completely different - in those cases, even if you don't have permission to enter, you know there is an immediate threat/danger on that specific property.

Neighbor of elderly male calls 911 and says he hasn't seen his neighbor for two days, police/ems show up and force entry because they can't get in touch with a key holder. Turns out hes on vacation. No immediate threat or danger, just stupid neighbor. Happens several times a day in my town alone.

[Boyiee]

Reminds me, Jews called 911 for seeing fire in a window of a house a few weeks ago. Turns out it was a strobe light. Sucks for those residents.

3rd party callers make assumptions and there are often no immediate threats or danger for any individuals. I can't tell you how many times we get called for smoke coming from a residence and its a chimney, chiminea, or something else equally stupid or outside the house. There's smoke coming out of that houses Chimney!!!!

[Tyrath]

I think the thing you're missing, Tyrath, is that the kids obviously weren't looking to gun down ordinary citizens..

Not even going to comment on that bit.

After they executed their little terror plot, their primary concern was getting away. The only people they shot/threw bombs at were people who posed a threat to them. In that context, the cops kicking in doors and pointing weapons at citizens poses more of a threat than the bombers. Obviously they do knock first, but I don't know about you guys, but I have headphones on almost 100% of the time. I don't hear knocks or doorbells unless I'm expecting someone and listening for it. Cops busting in on me sitting at my computer would've scared the shit out of me, and if I were paranoid enough to have a gun handy, who knows if I would've done something stupid or not.

So it was safer to just leave them in any house they might be hiding in? You don't think anyone who saw where they are wouldn't be considered a threat seeing as the first they they would do is report to the police? Come on, get real. These guys showed they didn't value anyone else's life and were a clear and immediate danger to anyone living in that area.

[NynJa]

I think the thing you're missing, Tyrath, is that the kids obviously weren't looking to gun down ordinary citizens.

Hahaha oh man...man oh man oh man...wow...wwwowwwwww
The kids who killed 4 and left 170+ wounded all of a sudden have compassion for human lives...yeahhhhh

[Boyiee]

Hahaha oh man...man oh man oh man...wow...wwwowwwwww
The kids who killed 4 and left 170+ wounded all of a sudden have compassion for human lives...yeahhhhh

But bro, while his brother was outside shooting a cop, he made sure to turn around and return the doritos he accidentally walked out with without paying.

[archibaldcrane]

The question of "how big is too big, how vague is too vague" is pertinent here. Just answering "they weren't searching too large of an area in this instance, they had specific enough info in this situation" based on, essentially, your gut "liberty/safety" threshold does not answer what the legal boundary is/should be for this type of situation.

[Blubbartron]

Everyone flipping their shit about the fact that I think they weren't going to shoot ordinary civilians while trying to run - perhaps you should remember they carjacked a guy and didn't harm him at all. Clearly they weren't concerned about being identified or tracked, otherwise they would've offed him.

[archibaldcrane]

It is still completely irrelevant.

[Blubbartron]

When someone poses the argument of "the town is in imminent danger, therefore police state-like authority is necessary", it becomes relevant to say whether or not people actually were in imminent danger. Frankly I'm kind of shocked they rolled in the army for these two guys. It's a pretty common tactic in police chases (high speed or otherwise) to let the suspect run to less populated areas before engaging them, because the police themselves become a cause of reckless/dangerous behavior from the suspects.

[Boyiee]

they had fucking bombs lol

[Boyiee]

a lot of states police cant pursue at high speed

[Ddz]

I see it more as people coming together in a state of compliance because everyone wanted the suspect to be caught, not a "waah the government is against me and taking my rights away". There was a very good reason to allow entry and search on that day.

[hey]

Do people really not notice when someone breaks into their house? If the police came by and demanded i let them search my house for someone, i'd tell them to fuck off, i would have already called them if he was here.

If they want to search outside, then that's fine.

[Eurell]

Do people really not notice when someone breaks into their house? If the police came by and demanded i let them search my house for someone, i'd tell them to fuck off, i would have already called them if he was here.

If they want to search outside, then that's fine.

And if he had your family held hostage inside and told you to tell the cops to go fuck themselves? Cops should just walk away?