Salary Negotiation Tactics

[archibaldcrane]

So, at least we've pinpointed why women earn less than men.

[archibaldcrane]

What should she do? She failed miserably at salary negotiation, if she wants the job she should just take it, and she should know she only has herself to blame for taking a below-market salary.

[Churchill]

idk, i'd be happy at 50. It's less than I was making before school (with benefits included) but it's not like being better than everyone is extremely difficult.

Promotions would come and taking 50 would be a funny story I told to hookers.

[Cassalot]

In this economy and getting a job in your field straight out of college is amazing in itself.. I'd be all over that offer.

[Mojo]

Job offer out of college
>turns it down

Good luck with that.

If I didn't accept another offer, I would have taken it.

As far as her situation goes, she is still negotiating the way I see it. Everything has been verbal so far.

[Dmitry]

50k is pretty awsome indeed, but what is the average Salary for coming out of school in US?

I started out at 20k a year 4 years ago. I was just glad to have a job.

[archibaldcrane]

As far as her situation goes, she is still negotiating the way I see it. Everything has been verbal so far.

She already said she'd do the job for 45k a year. Negotiation is essentially over - or at least her leverage is. They may be "nice" to her and give her a better offer still so she doesn't feel like a moron at work every day, but yeah. I don't think there's much of a move to make on her end.

[bluefan]

Negotiating for salary is fine, but remember the employer can always just find someone else if it drags on (unless there's a written agreement involved of course). My software engineering friend got 2 offers after his bachelors, one from Microsoft and one from Google. Google offered ~6k more, but he ended up taking the Microsoft one. And both were below 60k. That was 5 years ago, now he's one of the lead engineers for Azure and makes 180k+bonuses, and I stay in his big ass house when I go to PAX.

I wouldn't worry about starting pay too much, most likely, your friend will see a pay raise soon and frequently if her quality keeps up.

[Cayos]

Negotiating for salary is fine, but remember the employer can always just find someone else if it drags on (unless there's a written agreement involved of course). My software engineering friend got 2 offers after his bachelors, one from Microsoft and one from Google. Google offered ~6k more, but he ended up taking the Microsoft one. And both were below 60k. That was 5 years ago, now he's one of the lead engineers for Azure and makes 180k+bonuses, and I stay in his big ass house when I go to PAX.

I wouldn't worry about starting pay too much, most likely, your friend will see a pay raise soon and frequently if her quality keeps up.

As a software engineer, they pay a LOT more right out of college now. Amazon alone pays 90k + 20k bonus for a new developer. I'm making more as an intern now (based on how much they would be making per month) than apparently they made 5 years ago.

[Isiolia]

Also take into account location, if you haven't already done so, and benefits. To a point, it's less the actual dollar amount, and more the quality of life it buys in that area.

In turn, the salaries from higher cost of living areas may be skewing the averages that you're expecting.

[bluefan]

As a software engineer, they pay a LOT more right out of college now. Amazon alone pays 90k + 20k bonus for a new developer. I'm making more as an intern now (based on how much they would be making per month) than apparently they made 5 years ago.

Really? That's nuts!

[mallister]

be very careful and find out what the company's policy for raises and promotions is. lowballing yourself to get your foot in the door somewhere can really screw you over if they have mandatory caps on pay raises. i got hosed really bad coming out of my 2nd divorce because i needed a job (bills were stacking up) and took an offer i really shouldn't have. i was stuck at a 2% maximum per year pay increase with an already lowballed starting salary, with my only options being to resign and re-apply for the job to get my pay adjusted to anything close to 'average' for the field. the job market being what it was then, this wasn't an option. eventually i told them to go fuck themselves and went to afghanistan but that's another story.

[Cayos]

Really? That's nuts!

Yep, higher salary AND they pay for everything. Flying there/back, shipping luggage, rental car, food stipend, housing stipend, etc. They will do anything (within reason) to get a good developer. Any money you make as an intern is pretty much cash in the bank.

[Kalmado]

Also take into account location, if you haven't already done so, and benefits. To a point, it's less the actual dollar amount, and more the quality of life it buys in that area.

In turn, the salaries from higher cost of living areas may be skewing the averages that you're expecting.

I agree with this. Regarding negotiations, the company is always going to low ball because if they get someone that accepts it's a huge win for them. If given the opportunity to present what you expect to earn and why, sell yourself high and give strong reasons why you deserve the pay. Coming out of college with zero experience will be harder than a seasoned vet in the field, but that's where confidence and charisma can help. They of course will reject the high amount and you can probably meet in the middle.

[bluefan]

Yep, higher salary AND they pay for everything. Flying there/back, shipping luggage, rental car, food stipend, housing stipend, etc. They will do anything (within reason) to get a good developer. Any money you make as an intern is pretty much cash in the bank.

Ah yeah that's a good point. Buddy went with Microsoft because they gave him $5k to help with the move (he's from California) and put down the down payment on his house.

[Mojo]

The averages I'm presenting are regional averages, although they are coming from the internet. I have some faith in them though, my friend started at 65 at a different local company.

[SDSD]

I would recommend her to hold out for for more that 50k. Most of the ME's I know that have graduated the past two years start out at anywhere from 50-60k depending on experience/size of the company, but mostly negotiating their salary up from low-ball offers.

Since she's been at this place for awhile, and seems to be asked to take on a higher level of responsibility compared to your normal entry level, 50k is a little low. It's most likely a negotiating gambit.

The company probably intends to settle somewhere between 50-60k but they're not going to give it away easily. The benefits to her for holding out for even 4-5k extra would be tremendous down the line once you consider how important wage compounding on raises are. I bet the company would be more than willing to increase their offer above 50k if she takes the initiative to force their hand.

[Soa]

The averages I'm presenting are regional averages, although they are coming from the internet. I have some faith in them though, my friend started at 65 at a different local company.

One thing you have to remember is that average starting salaries among most industries are skewed high right now thanks to the shitty economy. They also make a lot of assumptions based on location, like assuming everyone in New York automatically makes the maximum salary range when in reality that's not true. In my field they are paying people with a lot of experience and education about 5k less than the stated average starting salary, and I know many other fields are like that now.

She should probably just take the offer and get the experience, then worry about negotiating later or getting a job at a different company for a better salary. Employers have all the leverage right now and don't think for a second they won't replace her with someone else who will work for a couple bucks cheaper. If she's been there 2 years and they are lowballing her that badly then chances are they are not going to pay more than 50k for that position regardless who fills it.

[archibaldcrane]

They aren't lowballing her. If someone says "i'll do it for 45k" and they offer 50k, that's not a lowball.

She screwed herself.

[Charismatic]

They aren't lowballing her. If someone says "i'll do it for 45k" and they offer 50k, that's not a lowball.

She screwed herself.

^