2013 NHL Playoff Thread: BITCH WE MIGHT BE

[Brill Weave]

Captain crosby is gonna remind his team that these bruins blew a 3-0 lead to another pennsylvania team and the pens can do it better than the flyers!!!

lol nope. I think you have a better chance of seeing Crosby Bertuzzi Letang.

[Xajii]

lol @ pittsburgh fans' grossly exaggerated predictions of what people would give up for geno

[Callisto]

I think people are forgetting that his remaining year is a $9m hit and then he goes UFA, that is already a massive price for a rental before even factoring in any assets given up in a trade.

Unless Pens agree to retain some of that I don't really see that going on.

[Brill Weave]

lol @ pittsburgh fans' grossly exaggerated predictions of what people would give up for geno

You are steadily approaching shit tier with reckless abandon. It's like you don't even try to contribute anymore lol.

[Brill Weave]

I think people are forgetting that his remaining year is a $9m hit and then he goes UFA, that is already a massive price for a rental before even factoring in any assets given up in a trade.

Unless Pens agree to retain some of that I don't really see that going on.

Just idle banter. The problem that you have with trading any superstar is that you rarely get value for them. The cap hit is so high to begin with the only way a deal like that happens is if you take on some high cap hit scrub player as a throw in. Or like you said retain some of the salary. I honestly think the Pens have another year or two left before Lemieux decides it's time to blow it up, keep the essentials, and start trading off parts.

[Glowstickthetaru]

The only star on the team they would be able to get value for would be Crosby. They could probably get better than value because of his name. The bidding war would be outragous. Especially when you consider how cheap his deal is. Easily get double what Sep was suggesting for Malkin. Plus all the 1st rounders. For forever. I don't think they'd do it because he just brings in way too much money, but they could significantly improve the team for years.

[Callisto]

Trading Crosby would be entertaining just for the news coverage of the riots and mobs running Mario/Shero out of town with pitchforks and torches.

[Brill Weave]

Yeah. It would never happen. But my God the fallout would be hilarious.

[Sepukku]

Chris Pronger cost the Flyers Lupul, Sbisa, 2 first round picks, and a third 3rd pick.

Hossa + Dupius (both as rentals at the time) cost the Penguins Chistiansen, Armstrong, former 1st rd pick then-prospect Esposito, and a 1st round pick (again, only as a 6 week rental).

Nash cost the Rangers Dubinsky, Erixon, Anisimov, and a 1st round pick, and everyone knew Columbus had no leverage to get fair value for Nash due to his request AND Malkin is a better player than Nash.

Teams will trade the farm to get a top level superstar and Malkin, along with Sid/AO/Toews/Stamkos, are on a superstar tier not comparable to any other forward in the game so its hard to compare historically as theres no precedent for the tier they're on. Quit trollin that Duchene/1st OVR pick is 'too much' for Malkin.

[Cail]

NORRIS TROPHY CANDIDATE.

FUCKING LLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

How did no one else point that out yet?!

[Cutriss]

Oh god, just watched the Campbell replay, looks like it hit him in the shin. Ouch.

Close. If it hit his shin, it would have shattered his tibia, and he definitely would not have been standing. The tibia is the weight-bearing bone of the pair. He dodged a bullet (metaphorically speaking).

[Xajii]

You are steadily approaching shit tier with reckless abandon. It's like you don't even try to contribute anymore lol.

Last couple days I have made very few posts with any substance other than to laugh at the Penguins, this is true - been distracted with work and can mostly only jump in enough to get some of my hatred for them out. You have to understand that this is the most epic schadenfreude imaginable for Penguins/Pittsburgh rivals imaginable. (Although I did pick them to win and really did actually want them to win because I think Pens - Hawks would've been a better series the way they had been playing, this outcome pleases me just as much)

But your "idle banter" is really ill informed and it's the same shit I hear around here every time Ovechkin has a bad trade. "Let's get a first and a star and all this other shit for our star player because he actually secretly sucks and is ruining our team!" (I know that last part isn't what you guys think about Malkin but it's what some people in DC think of Ovi)

Ragingly incompetent management aside - and that does happen, but you have to really hit the lottery for it to go down - trades like that just aren't going to happen in today's NHL. As Calli said, there's a big cap hit to consider, and - perhaps more importantly - the number of teams who are one superstar away from really competing are few, far between, and don't have the resources to just pick one up. Someone like the Rockies would be pants-on-head retarded to trade for Malkin or similar equivalent because there are strong prospects and they're in full rebuild mode.

And the other half is - Malkin is an excellent player, of course, but this is a bad time to shop him. He's really underperformed this series, and even in the playoffs as a whole, I can't say - from the games I did catch (i.e., not much of the first series, most of OTT, all of this series) - not up to expectations in the postseason in general. If you want to trade him - and I'm not convinced you do - wait for him to go ham for a little while in the next season and shop him around deadline time.

It's easy to look at the roster when a performance like this ends up happening but to me this is primarily on Byslma. Some guys out there definitely aren't skating smoothly enough or making smart plays (ahem, Letang) but the entire strategy here is not working and they have hardly had a stretch of ice dominance that lasted over 3 minutes for the entire series. The players are pissed, but not motivated. I think he made a really bad call taking out Vokoun in Game 2 when the goals he let in were pretty much all the defense's fault (and the defensive planning, might I add). The PP just looks confused this series, like they're not sure who they want to be taking the shot, and the entire team chemistry just seems to be crumbling. I know you don't want to crucify a coach after a single three-game stretch, but from an outside perspective, the team chemistry and game planning has been on thin ice for a little while. The Isle and the Senators weren't some of the toughest opponents to have faced in the playoffs, and from my limited perspective (do feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) the Penguins were able to ride a similar wave that the Caps rode on Ovi - first on Crosby, then on Malkin/Neal/Kunitz/etc.

The Caps live and die with Ovi, but the Penguins don't really live and die with any one or even two players. I don't really think the Iginla thing worked out and I would agree that he will/should probably head off; but the roster is rock solid and saying "the two star system doesn't work" doesn't really make sense to me.

tl;dr get a new coach and see what happens. Someone needs to smack Letang up in the head. Keep Malkin, Neal, all those guys. Keep Vokoun in and keep an eye out for a younger guy. Fleury should not by any means stay, but it's Pittsburgh and they love him, so he very well might. Sorry for recent posts that lack substance, and for their fervor; living where I do with the friends I have and the teams I support, it just had to come out somewhere, and better you than the hot girls who would get mad at me.

[Xajii]

Teams will trade the farm to get a top level superstar and Malkin, along with Sid/AO/Toews/Stamkos, are on a superstar tier not comparable to any other forward in the game so its hard to compare historically as theres no precedent for the tier they're on. Quit trollin that Duchene/1st OVR pick is 'too much' for Malkin.

There's precedence, but the current circumstance doesn't show me any team that would make that desperation jump. The three teams you named were prepping for competitive runs (some of which worked out better than others, but lol). Who right now, as I said, is a superstar away from contention with the means to make the trade? I just do not think it would go down. You can shop him well and good, just not this offseason - and you really shouldn't, either, as I said above

[Cail]

[Brill Weave]

But your "idle banter" is really ill informed and it's the same shit I hear around here every time Ovechkin has a bad trade.

I'm completely aware of what it takes for something that immense to take place. It doesn't happen often. These hypothetical conversations have been going on as long as we've had hockey threads on the board. That's not going to change. Getting your knickers in a bunch over said hypothetical conversations is kind of dumb. But your shit tier standing is removed since you contributed something intelligent lol. Sorry you're tied up with work.

Now onto the rest of your post!

If the Pens lose this series(and let's be honest, they will) Bylsma should be gone. I don't know if that will happen though. Shero gave Bylsma all the pieces he needed to win the Cup. Last year they got pushed around all over the ice. So he adds Morrow and Murray. The complaint has always been made that Crosby doesn't have a high pedigree winger to skate with him. Problem solved, pick up a future Hall of Fame right winger in Iginla. Here's where the problems started. Rather than break up the first line, Bylsma has insisted on playing Iginla at the left wing. A position he's never played in his career to my knowledge. He looks out of place and uncomfortable. He is on his backhand side so by doing this you automatically take away the one timer. Sure, that makes sense....Morrow has very little left in the tank. He should be on the fourth line with Adams/Vitale/Kennedy. Bennett should be getting regular ice time based on his offensive potential alone. Kunitz needs to be dropped to the 2nd line with Malkin so Iggy can be on his natural wing on the 1st line.

That's the kind of crap that Bylsma pulls. He doesn't adapt and keeps thinking that the talent level of the Pens will be enough to win. He's far too friendly with the team and will not unload on them when they fuck up or don't listen. That's his old player mentality creeping in. Which is fine when you're winning. But the Pens need answers now and he's not giving them any. Yes they played worlds better last night. But there is no excuse in the world that the Pens only have 2 goals in three games. None. No reason their power play is putting up an 0fer. I like Coach Disco. But he's not the guy anymore. Not after this. You have to wonder that if the Pens played stronger teams in the opening rounds would they have even made it this far? Fleury is gone after this season. Bylsma said last night that they just needed the goalie to make the routine stops. Not be fantastic. By starting Vokoun again Bylsma was basically saying Fleury couldn't even make routine saves. With his cap hit and extremely poor playoff performances over the past few years his days are numbered here. He's extremely popular here and there will be a massive amount of backlash. But he's not getting it done and hasn't for a long time.

[Xajii]

Good analysis of the line issues although kunitz is tearing it up where he is and I'd be hesitant to move him personally.

I doubt he leaves this year (Byslma) which sucks for you all. And with the division changes upcoming it is going to be a freaking dogfight ... but he's not the guy to wrangle all these personalities. Not that most of them are bad but still.

Shero is smart and I'm sure he will keep the roster in cup tier form. Just not sure he's got the guts to make that coaching change.

[Callisto]

Good analysis of the line issues although kunitz is tearing it up where he is and I'd be hesitant to move him personally.

I doubt he leaves this year (Byslma) which sucks for you all. And with the division changes upcoming it is going to be a freaking dogfight ... but he's not the guy to wrangle all these personalities. Not that most of them are bad but still.

Shero is smart and I'm Sue he will keep the roster in cup tier form. Just jot sure he's got the guts to make that coaching change.

nice to meet you, Sue

[Xajii]

nice to meet you, Sue

God damnit lol

[Brill Weave]

Good analysis of the line issues although kunitz is tearing it up where he is and I'd be hesitant to move him personally.

I doubt he leaves this year (Byslma) which sucks for you all. And with the division changes upcoming it is going to be a freaking dogfight ... but he's not the guy to wrangle all these personalities. Not that most of them are bad but still.

Shero is smart and I'm sure he will keep the roster in cup tier form. Just not sure he's got the guts to make that coaching change.

People forget though that when Crosby was out last year the Kunitz, Malkin, Neal line was the best line in hockey. So it's not like there's a fall off in production. Kunitz is comfortable playing with both of them and adapts to their play style with ease. This was a choice made by Bylsma to keep Crosby happy. Crosby is signed for a very long time. You're in the conference finals now. Pissing off your star player goes away real quickly when you're in the Stanley Cup finals.

By keeping the first line intact Bylsma basically cut the legs out from under the second line.

[Callisto]

People forget though that when Crosby was out last year the Kunitz, Malkin, Neal line was the best line in hockey. So it's not like there's a fall off in production. Kunitz is comfortable playing with both of them and adapts to their play style with ease. This was a choice made by Bylsma to keep Crosby happy. Crosby is signed for a very long time. You're in the conference finals now. Pissing off your star player goes away real quickly when you're in the Stanley Cup finals.

By keeping the first line intact Bylsma basically cut the legs out from under the second line.

Not that this is really incorrect, but if you have the option to put your best roleplayers as linemates for your best player, or your second best player, I would think that you give as much support as possible to your best player. Your second line isn't your first line for a reason.