Delve

[Kaisha]

True. A shame Burattinaios had to get nerfed. Was probably the only time I used PUP in Abyssea.....

Could the master melee on the bee, or would the TP feed/possible death not be worth it for making use of Tactical Switch?

[noodles355]

Or like... stop trying to force pup into a role that drg can already cover perfectly.

[Kaisha]

God forbid people try to explore the potential of other options so we're not completely fixated on one setup for everything with no room for substitution.

[dasva]

It does have several decent AOE moves

[noodles355]

God forbid people try to explore the potential of other options so we're not completely fixated on one setup for everything with no room for substitution.

Yeah, great if you're talking about filling a niche role that's hard to find with an easier alternative, but you're doing the exact opposite.

Being different for the sake of being different was never cool.

[Jem]

Considering PUP struggles to cap Acc against Delve fodder, I can't see how they could possibly hit something where people with like 900 Acc are only having like 60% Acc.

[fantasticdan]

Well pup would only be 18 acc behind mnk right? I don't think they're talking about meleeing with the pup itself thou.

[Jem]

Well pup would only be 18 acc behind mnk right? I don't think they're talking about meleeing with the pup itself thou.

I'm pretty sure they are talking about the master.

Could the master melee on the bee, or would the TP feed/possible death not be worth it for making use of Tactical Switch?

[Dotsudoku]

Yeah, great if you're talking about filling a niche role that's hard to find with an easier alternative, but you're doing the exact opposite.

Being different for the sake of being different was never cool.

In a world where something that takes all of a day to have up and running is hard to find

And it was proposed as a potentially superior alternative, not a "lol well this is different I like it better". There are holes in it, sure, and it may very well work out to be the lesser of the options, but your reasons for dismissal are poor-- calm yo tits



The master meleeing suggestion is a no-no, though. If you want to be sure that Armor Shatterer is going off often enough to maintain the debuff, you could just as easily have someone Adloquiem you, sub SAM, or what have you, followed by Tactical Switch. With perfect timing the auto is coming in and out of existence in ~1minute intervals. With a 60 TP head start, getting a WS off in that time frame would be pretty trivial

[dasva]

The master meleeing suggestion is a no-no, though. If you want to be sure that Armor Shatterer is going off often enough to maintain the debuff, you could just as easily have someone Adloquiem you, sub SAM, or what have you, followed by Tactical Switch. With perfect timing the auto is coming in and out of existence in ~1minute intervals. With a 60 TP head start, getting a WS off in that time frame would be pretty trivial

Well wont be exactly 60. adloquiem will get you 60 in that time and af3 feet get you more... but then that's ws once every 3 min... what's the duration on armor shatterer on higher nm like that?

[Dotsudoku]

The one 1 minute figure is based on Ventriloquy/Deactivate timers, not explicitly WS frequency. It also assumes that you must deactivate immediately once you use Ventriloquy. It wouldn't be a cut and dry situation, but the result would be having very little trouble getting it to WS enough to debuff it constantly. I can't speak of the actual duration

Honestly though, this was more of a random thought than a "you must do this from now on!". There would probably be little to no difference between using PUP and using DRG, and the DRG could probably be a lot more AFK

That, and it assumes that more than a handful of groups are going with the relic strategy. It's great that it's working for them, but nitpicking over who makes the best enmity dumpster in a strategy that only really works for the minority is kinda' silly. More focus should be on tweaking setups that involve RNGs using Decoy Shot in the PLD's party, etc.

[dasva]

Well don't really need relic for it. But being able to actually ws is nice lol

[Dotsudoku]

Napkin math I did on an XIAH thread(don't bother looking at it, it's a terrible mess) suggested that LS was feasible with /DRG and appropriate support measures. TP/WS in -50 enmity(including Animus Minuo) is much more reasonable than you'd think

[Thundarian]

God forbid people try to explore the potential of other options so we're not completely fixated on one setup for everything with no room for substitution.

I still don't understand why people are fixated on stacking rangers instead of just bringing a BRD + SMN setup for stacking earthen armor + scherzo (not to mention the tons of other useful buffs a SMN could roll on a party) for a 78%ish decrease to the damage in the big hits.

Imo if people actually bothered to make a balanced party setup to use all the avaliable buffs / debuffs instead of mindlessly zerging BRD Cor WHm DDDDDDDD over and over things would be a lot easier.

[Prothescar]

because RNGs are so much safer and still sufficient.

[Peace Walker]

I still don't understand why people are fixated on stacking rangers instead of just bringing a BRD + SMN setup for stacking earthen armor + scherzo (not to mention the tons of other useful buffs a SMN could roll on a party) for a 78%ish decrease to the damage in the big hits.

Imo if people actually bothered to make a balanced party setup to use all the avaliable buffs / debuffs instead of mindlessly zerging BRD Cor WHm DDDDDDDD over and over things would be a lot easier.

This.
It feels like we're locking ourselves into the first succesful strategy we can find. I'm sure there are other possibilities, but when you consider the current scenario where everyone and their moms have a DRK with Bereaver, new strategies are going to require people to take a step out of this "comfort zone".
I would love to see other jobs getting a chance.

because RNGs are so much safer and still sufficient.

Time to buy an Annihilator with airlixirs.

[dasva]

I still don't understand why people are fixated on stacking rangers instead of just bringing a BRD + SMN setup for stacking earthen armor + scherzo (not to mention the tons of other useful buffs a SMN could roll on a party) for a 78%ish decrease to the damage in the big hits.

Problem is alot of little AOE hits not just a big hit here or there. Trex has added danger (not to mention mp drain) of AOE weakness and shark AOE death. Your idea while probably doable requires an extra buffer per pt and definitely a healer or 2 in each pt to keep up with all that. And that is still kinda throwing bodies at it which is inherently more dangerous and the runs have alot invested in them thanks to beads

[Jem]

Pretty simple reason really. They wouldn't proc.

http://cdn.guildwork.net/albums/imag...09ebc8aeb4.jpg

The dangers from the NM's do not come from being 'one-shot'.


Not to mention the fact that unless you're buffed to the nines you can't hit the damn things and when you do you hit for shitty damage. It's a pretty damn big flaw in any set-up when the NM isn't dead before you timeout.

I wouldn't really call it a mindless zerg either. They are 15-25 minute fights where we're actually utilizing tanks and proper hate management which is a lot more than can be said for the past few years. It's pretty decently balanced content considering you only have 45 minutes and have to kill at least 2 NM's plus get to the boss before you can start killing it.

EDIT: Also did you miss the part where we tried DD's and a balanced set-up before going down the RNG route? RNG's were not our first port of call. Pretty much every one of our RNG's has a stronger melee DD or better support job. I can count on zero hands how many times I'd used my Annihilator prior to Delve bosses.

[Mythe_Seraph]

This.
It feels like we're locking ourselves into the first succesful strategy we can find. I'm sure there are other possibilities, but when you consider the current scenario where everyone and their moms have a DRK with Bereaver, new strategies are going to require people to take a step out of this "comfort zone".
I would love to see other jobs getting a chance.



Time to buy an Annihilator with airlixirs.

I still don't understand why people are fixated on stacking rangers instead of just bringing a BRD + SMN setup for stacking earthen armor + scherzo (not to mention the tons of other useful buffs a SMN could roll on a party) for a 78%ish decrease to the damage in the big hits.

Imo if people actually bothered to make a balanced party setup to use all the avaliable buffs / debuffs instead of mindlessly zerging BRD Cor WHm DDDDDDDD over and over things would be a lot easier.

Lol, the fuck? I never understood lurkers on BG and still don't. Go ahead and try your strategies then. I'm sure the groups that have already killed the monsters will continue to use the strategy that works for them right now and get all the gear everyone else wishes they had.

Why take a step out of the "comfort zone" when you've just barely found the "comfort zone" and there are people who still need gear?

[Kohan]

Lol, the fuck? I never understood lurkers on BG and still don't. Go ahead and try your strategies then. I'm sure the groups that have already killed the monsters will continue to use the strategy that works for them right now and get all the gear everyone else wishes they had.

Why take a step out of the "comfort zone" when you've just barely found the "comfort zone" and there are people who still need gear?

Because Adoulin has been out for years, and these content updates are so slow, and everyone is so stuck in the past, and all you've got to do is believe and just know and avoid all the sheeple and save "Final Fantasy XI" forever.

Also, because actually mathing things out when you want to present an alternative viewpoint is hard. Who goes half-ass when you can go whole-ass? Rebels, that's who.