Delve

[ccl]

Are we supposed to teach you to use high jump and how to roll ?

[Fwahm]

Why would you take 16% def down when you could take 25% def down? Unless you desperately need that last party spot for something?

I still can't read this pup stuff as anything other than "let's take a more complicated option that takes more effort and is inferior in it's role just because".

With max Angon merits, Angon is only up half the time, so unless you bring 2 DRGs or reset their JAs really often, the PUP will lower defense by more overall.

[noodles355]

.

[Jem]

Part of the frustrating part of the "suck less" comes from the fact the 2 ls's that have posted kills have been playing pretty coy, specific questions are being answered but its not like we've been given any full strats. Yes we can piece together the alliance setups now from all the bits and pieces of info given out and I doubt theres any surprises but a single concise post with alliance structure and buff rotations would still be welcomed.

I am in no way saying you are keeping everything a big secret and most of the information is already in this thread, but the refusal to give a single post that outlines everything you did to get such a comfortable win is obvious.

I'm not going to spoon feed people because I've already given out far more information than most LS'es do and probably far more than my LS ever wanted me to give out too.

It's not rocket science though. Keep the RNG's fully buffed. Keep the mob debuffed. Shoot away until it dies without the RNG's pulling hate. It's extremely basic.

It's the sort of strategy I would have expected people to piece together even if we had said nothing. Everything we do has been mentioned at one point or another in the thread.

[Prothescar]

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/...abananawd7.jpg

[Fake]

Are we supposed to teach you to use high jump and how to roll ?

Evidently other groups that have tried it aren't finding it as easy as you did, if you want to try and turn it around then sure, teach us how to ffxi we're so dummmmm. Point still remains that you've made the decision to have people trawl through the 20+ pages since first kills and piece every bit of information together rather than just make a post with it all in.

That decision is fine, its just amusing since its not like you're going to start losing claim to every gimp on the server putting together a PUG to camp it.

[Byrthnoth]

People were mentioning Thunder Shots to drop Tchakka's aura (right?). Perhaps ice damage will drop the bee's Aura?

[Prothescar]

I can sort of understand it since it's still injecting competition into the Naakual synth item economy and devalues the ability to sell KIs by a small amount if other LSs start killing it regularly, but neither of those come in expressly high amounts so it's not really a big deal whether 1 LS or 4 happen to kill these things. Let's face it, even with a proper setup only the best LSs per server will be killing these (1~3 of them max) and that's only after they've properly equipped 4+ good RNGs, since I have to assume most LSs are like mine with only a couple of good RNGs with Annihilator/Yoichi at best.

That said, I've pretty much gleaned all the information I need from what ccl and jem have posted already. It isn't difficult to log it cognitively, and if you can't remember it all then write it down or something idk.

[noodles355]

Keep the RNG's fully buffed. Keep the mob debuffed. Shoot away until it dies without the RNG's pulling hate. It's extremely basic.

If you can't infer that this is the basic strategy from what Jem/Ccl have previously posted, then you probably don't deserve to win. Any fine details on top of the above that they haven't shared are just common sense and any moderately intelligent person should be able to figure them out - after all, they did.

[Jem]

Jesus fuck it's not complicated

4 RNG/DRG's (more is better but not necessary)
8 Songs
4 Rolls
Dia II + 2x Light Shot
Angon
GEO DEF Down and EVA down

The rest of your ally doesn't even matter outside the above jobs plus a tank (2 for a safety net I guess) + Healer as long as you get to the Boss with 15-20 mins left. Throw in a stunner of some sort if you feel like it but it doesn't particularly matter.

If you can't piece together the ally from that then I don't know what to tell you.

[Stan64]

I've been reading the thread off and on and why do people expect that they would post strategies this early on? It is a competition.

And they did and are extremely helpful with follow up questions. Why is this even a debate?

[Fake]

I can sort of understand it since it's still injecting competition into the Naakual synth item economy and devalues the ability to sell KIs by a small amount if other LSs start killing it regularly, but neither of those come in expressly high amounts so it's not really a big deal whether 1 LS or 4 happen to kill these things. Let's face it, even with a proper setup only the best LSs per server will be killing these (1~3 of them max).

This is why I don't understand it. Even if you do "spoon feed" every single detail its not like it will dramatically change who can get the wins.

I have read the deve thread most days since the last update and have pieced together everything Jem's group has said, thats not my point. Its the coy attitude coupled with the "suck less" and "the fight is a joke" comments, its for ego rather than any other reason.

[Tymon]

Welcome to MMORPGs?

The fight could be completely impossible and there would be people on here posting "You don't have godlike powers? lol"

[ccl]

We think it's easy enough that everyone should be winning it, if you can't beat bee, bring your rng back to legion.

[Jem]

Muyingwa is a joke. Tojil less so.

Level 75 HNM's were harder than Muyingwa. Legion is harder than Muyingwa. It's harder to clear all 5 NM's in a zone than down Muyingwa.

I mean let's put this into perspective. It's a mob that isn't dangerous to tanks and basically stands there and takes it for 15, 20, 25 minutes (depending on DD's) until you kill it as long as you're smart enough to not pull hate. Your RNG's literally take zero damage all fight. What is hard about that?

The only challenge is getting your DPS up to the required levels. For a 25 minute fight you need 516 DPS combined from your DD's. We've told you the exact buffs/debuffs and DD's we used to get 861 combined DPS (and this could be improved with more RNG's).

This isn't an ego thing, this is purely stating what I think is the truth. This is definitely not how I would flaunt my ego if that's what I was aiming for.

[Tymon]

Unless you are insinuating that Muyingwa is easily doable with any setup (which I am not contesting and would like to know actually) the best thing to say would actually be "everyone with the 'proper' setup should be winning"

Obviously neither of the NMs are world beaters if you stack RNG. The entire crux of the debate in this thread for the last umpteen pages has been criticism over designing fights that require you to stack ranged damage.

I can take it a step further, since SE went on and on about "including newer players" into the event. How exactly do they expect anyone to do that when the fight only allows for one or two jobs with specific weapons and subjobs to damage the boss without severe consequences?

[NynJa]

I think this is the first time I've seen Jem actually look agitated towards others :D

I cant believe how mad some people are getting over the fact RNG's are back in the spotlight for the time being. Seriously, if you dont have the ranged attackers at your disposal, take two months to farm so many fucking beads your delivery box is maxed out like it was back in 2004 with light clusters, spend 2 hours a day in dynamis farming currency for a yoich/anni, and then with whatever beads you have stored up, go rape face on the bosses and reap the profits.


Or waste beads on a strategy today thats entirely paperwork and might not work, then come here QQing about how hard the bosses are and the precious "toss drk's sam's and war's at it" strategy isnt working...which is whats going on now.

[Kaces]

What exactly is the problem with ego again? Seems everyone, even the "good" guys practice some form of said behavior. I certainly don't believe they care for any of their rivals to pick away at whatever profit that can be gained by being the only ones that can kill the bosses.

With that said, I feel that most of us that have been reading this thread have figured out the alliance a long time ago. I don't see the point in the last couple of pages outside of trying to start an anti-ego crusade.

[Dotsudoku]

I think this is the first time I've seen Jem actually look agitated towards others :D

I cant believe how mad some people are getting over the fact RNG's are back in the spotlight for the time being. Seriously, if you dont have the ranged attackers at your disposal, take two months to farm so many fucking beads your delivery box is maxed out like it was back in 2004 with light clusters, spend 2 hours a day in dynamis farming currency for a yoich/anni, and then with whatever beads you have stored up, go rape face on the bosses and reap the profits.


Or waste beads on a strategy today thats entirely paperwork and might not work, then come here QQing about how hard the bosses are and the precious "toss drk's sam's and war's at it" strategy isnt working...which is whats going on now.

Tbh, if any group is starting from a position without Yoichi/Anni, may as well just have a handful of people cap ranged skill on PUP and buy an alternator. Added bonus of needing dickall for support

Really wish there was a reasonable way to test automaton RACC against the bee. Theoretically you only need ~twice as many PUP as you'd have RNG, but that may end up being overkill in practice if they have any kind of significant edge in RACC over a real RNG

Edit: another added bonus is that it basically has Byrth's idea of a scripted RNG built-in!

[Obsidian]

This is why I don't understand it. Even if you do "spoon feed" every single detail its not like it will dramatically change who can get the wins.

I have read the deve thread most days since the last update and have pieced together everything Jem's group has said, thats not my point. Its the coy attitude coupled with the "suck less" and "the fight is a joke" comments, its for ego rather than any other reason.

I think the "suck less" came from the parse where two RNGs had <50% ranged accuracy on a mob that has been expressly stated to require exorbitant amounts of r. acc gear. Wondering why you lost when half your damage dealers couldn't hit the broad side of a barn is pretty silly.

Edit: Speaking to ranged damage, though, I wonder how (in)effective Summoners and merited bloodpacts would be?