Delve

[Skeelo]

Technically Cirdas_U is the mines. So im at home!

[Djohn]

Along those lines assuming you could land full duration without ES might absolute terror be worth using blu?

What's the duration? I'm fairly certain it wouldn't be long enough that it would be worth bringing a BLU since you'd have to sacrifice a DD or a support job for the entire run. I also doubt you could land it without ES.

[dasva]

What's the duration? I'm fairly certain it wouldn't be long enough that it would be worth bringing a BLU since you'd have to sacrifice a DD or a support job for the entire run. I also doubt you could land it without ES.

Not sure if it's been fully nailed down but 20-30 sec seems the normish. Well you aren't really sacrificing a DD you are just getting one that isn't as good. While I know soa bumped mnk a bit blu still decent dd. As far as landing it no idea. I know some of the nqs can land without really gearing for it or ES... but finding a blu that is good enough dd not to slow you down and that makes a build for that might be too rare to even try lol

[Dotsudoku]

Pending the quality of DEF down spells against Tojil, you could potentially swap out the DRG for the BLU. Non-Ryuno/Upu DRGs are pretty terribad

[dasva]

Sadly they are never fixing Tourbillion but I believe Bilgestorm lands.But that also requires UL.... Frightful roar and enervation have always been really accurate but 10% is kinda meh. Maybe one day they will realize that UL spells aren't that insane that you should have to chose between just 1 every 5 min

[Doofus]

our drg has the bee polearm, there is no replacing him, either in job usefulness or in dmg

also ryu but its on his mannequin i think

[Djohn]

There is no way a BLU will compare to a good DRG, and DRG can do Angon -> Spirit Surge Jump x2 (with augmented AF2+2 helm) -> Angon -> (Wild Card) Angon. That gives you 20-25% def down for the first 6 minutes.

[Jem]

Ok so I know lolbst and all that but it came up in LS chat about Killer Instinct so I went to see if BST could actually get a worthwhile TP set so it could do something more than just Killer Instinct.

http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/276263

+198 Acc, +61 DEX with full augments. +186 Acc and +41 DEX if you just rank 2 Axe/Feet.

I almost feel stupid for asking this but is it worth taking a BST/DNC for Killer Instinct + Steps?

I suppose if you take Delve boss drops out of the equation you drop a decent chunk of Acc (Phorcys Salade, Dynamic +1 and I dont know what Axe as replacements)

[Djohn]

Ok so I know lolbst and all that but it came up in LS chat about Killer Instinct so I went to see if BST could actually get a worthwhile TP set so it could do something more than just Killer Instinct.

http://www.ffxiah.com/members/item-sets?id=276263

+198 Acc, +61 DEX with full augments. +186 Acc and +41 DEX if you just rank 2 Axe/Feet.

I almost feel stupid for asking this but is it worth taking a BST/DNC for Killer Instinct + Steps?

I suppose if you take Delve boss drops out of the equation you drop a decent chunk of Acc (Phorcys Salade, Dynamic +1 and I dont know what Axe as replacements)

I'd love to mess around with Kerehcatl BST in Delve but I'm missing several pieces of gear from that set, and even if I weren't, I don't see it happening. (I assume we're still talking about boss runs here.)

BST won't be as valuable as DRG, so basically it would have to replace DRK in our setup unless we want to give up a hundred fists and a second mantra in one party. The ability also only affects your party members, and I don't think boosting 2 DDs' dmg by 10% about 3/4 of the time will be worth it. Who knows, maybe it will be worth considering after the 1H update.

P.S.: http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/276263 is the link that lets other people see that set.

[Jem]

Corrected the link. This is what happens when you post at 3:30am

I was kinda concerned about what they would bring to the plate damage wise too. Plugging it into the spreadsheet, I get it ~25% behind my DRK damage wise /DNC sub and 15% NIN sub but that doesn't account for doing steps. It's actually a lot higher damage than I thought. But yeah, I think you would struggle to convince anyone to let a BST take up a party slot.

Killer Instinct would be up 80% of the time for what it's worth (3 min base + 40 secs if 5/5 plus 20 secs from AF2+2). So not sure if it's worth it.

+10% Damage, -10% DT, Intimidation for 2-3 party members + Steps
+25-35% damage by using a real DD pending on steps usage

Not sure which I'd prefer. Not sure if there's anything interesting a pet could land either before switching to an appropriate family pet. Like I assume anything remotely interesting like Purluent Ooze, Corrosive Ooze, Tortoise Stomp, Acid Mist, etc. would just get resisted.

[Taruking]

It's 15% damage boost and -15% DT right? Also if you bring RNGs BST can soak up the hate and transfer it to the pet every 30 secs.

[Jem]

It's 15% yes but it's nerfed in Delve to 10% on the T1-5 NMs. Not sure if it's nerfed further on the bosses.

[Lah]

A char called Niceguy on Lev has Tojil title so it seems JPs here are killing it too.

[Jem]

Also, I was a complete bandwagon BST who levelled it purely to solo salvage and dynamis. So I'm sure a career BST may know if there's anything else a BST would bring to the party.

[noodles355]

When you compared it's DPS to Drk did you account for the fact that spamming steps is lowering it's DoT?

[Jem]

No but I did say that. I also didn't account for the extra damage you might do elsewhere as a result of the steps though.

Anyway, you saw what Ccl said in LS! Not gonna happen for us lol.

[Prothescar]

Two things:

A) BST would probably be pretty good on the bird Naakual since you could use the slug there, and if those debuffs land they're pretty ridiculous. I somehow don't see them being very reliable on delve bosses though.

B) The commonly circulated 35% attack bonus on Ruinator may be skewing results on DPS comparisons significantly; BST isn't capping attack without that, and the actual value is more like 10%. I don't know if motenten uses 35% or not.



Would be interesting, but BST's viability has a lot of variables that all need to be in BST's favor in order for it to work out; something that doesn't happen very often. For Tojil in particular, it doesn't help that there's no really sturdy Beast pet except for that stupid useless sheep.

[Jem]

You think that a BST with SV Minuet + Chaos Roll won't cap attack against a mob with Angon + 2x Light Shot Dia II + Frailty on it? I have BST at 1244 Attack in the spreadsheet. 1680 on WS but I assume that is post Ruinator boost.

EDIT: It is marked down as 35% attack boost for the record. If I change it to 10%, DPS doesn't change but I am also guesstimating boss stats with no real foundation. Mob has to have 1495 Def to even make the DPS in the spreadsheet drop by 1 (with Ruinator at 10%)

As for Pet woes. Do you even need the pet in range? Can't you just activate the ability and make the pet stay with the mages? In fact does the pet even need to stay alive after initial activation of Killer Instinct? Or do you just need it alive each time you use it?

I won't be able to test it on bosses as I was told 'I'm not taking a BST <.<'

[Prothescar]

These things having ridiculous DEF wouldn't surprise me whatsoever, I particularly seem to recall a pre-release dev post about monster stats being elevated beyond what we'd seen before to account for some game mechanic changes that came with Adoulin zones. Not sure if they ever went through with that since it was the last we ever heard about it. That said, stacking so many debuffs and buffs would probably cap its attack if monster defense is within the bounds of what we can say we know about already, whether or not what BST brings to the table is worth dropping an actual DD (whose value comes not only from their damage output but also their other utilities, just like bst) is the real question.

BST:
*-10% DT, +10% damage, killer effect for the party that its in
*-13% Defense on the mob from Box Step
*-24 evasion on the mob from Quickstep
*-Unquantified amount of magic evasion, probably not much more than 30 or 35, on the mob from Stutter Step
*-33% DEF down for 75~90s every 150s
*-10% HP on the mob

Have to choose between one or two of the steps which will lower the DPS of the BST due to decreased weaponskill frequency as well as an introduction of lots of JA delay. You'd also have to choose between Gerard and the Sheep/Tiger, getting either Killer Instinct or Corrosive + Purulent Ooze. Only have to use Purulent once, can do that while Angon and Spirit Surged Jump DEF downs are active to shave off 10% of the NM's HP immediately then use Corrosive after that until Angon is ready again. This is assuming that the effects are reasonably accurate, though, and again forgoes Killer Instinct. Could also use Gerard's TP moves then pull out a sheep for Killer Instinct though I suppose if you only want to use the slug once.




DRK:
*Superior damage output
*100% chance of enhanced Chaos Roll rather than 50% in the party that it's in
*Additional stuns at the starting half of the fight

Not sure why else DRK would specifically be used here tbh, it doesn't offer much else. I'd just assume toss in a second DRG for more Angon and Spirit Surge Jump uptime.


So again, looks good on paper, particularly if the slug can land its shit: -10% HP right off the hop is massive, and -33% DEF for part of the time that Angon isn't up is huge too. But that is a big if, the potency of these two debuffs (particularly the HP down one) leads one to believe that their accuracy is limited here. Someone should find out!

[Jem]

I imagine what you would do is have Slug up long before reaching the NM so you can do: Purulent Ooze > Release > Call Beast > Killer Instinct.

I don't think Purulent Ooze is gonna land though. It would be too good to be true. You're talking 120-130k damage straight off the bat against something like Tojil.