Delve

[Doofus]

I think you guys are used to sub par DDs, when we compare jobs we compare top geared and skilled people. A dedicated and well geared DD will easily double the damage of the average player.

[Dotsudoku]

Ophidian DRG is structurally a minimum of 25% worse than a Bereaver DRK under identical circumstances

[Prothescar]

Okay, and I'm not suggesting to outright replace a Ryu or Bee polearm DRG in the strategy at all times no matter what. If that works for you go for it. However, I'm not going to dismiss the potential of a well equipped BST who knows what they're doing; the debuffs and buffs that they bring to the table vastly outweigh what DRG give sin terms of utility, and damage generation won't be so amazingly dwarfed in comparison that the combination of the BST's utility and its damage output makes it a reasonable contender for the slot if you don't have or want to bring a DRG. We've already seen twice now that alternative strategies exist for these NMs, shooting down new ones or variations on existing ones is pointless and ridiculous.

I think you guys are used to sub par DDs, when we compare jobs we compare top geared and skilled people. A dedicated and well geared DD will easily double the damage of the average player.

I compare the mathematical representations of jobs and their equipment. Those numbers do not lie. Whether anyone here runs with sub par DDs or not is irrelevant, and constantly taking pot shots at the competency of our company is as well.

We get it, you're a big bad pro level post-endgame linkshell and you've managed to kill Tojil. That doesn't give you leave to have egos the size of a small planet.

[Dotsudoku]

Particularly when all of you are now using an alternative strategy to get your kills

[Doofus]

Particularly when all of you are now using an alternative strategy to get your kills

how is our strategy alternative? our strat is the only one that has been proven reliable

[Prothescar]

I guess all of the kills prior to yours were fakes then

[Dotsudoku]

The initial assumption was that relic RNG would reign supreme against Tojil, and to hell with you if you suggested otherwise. And here we are, melee burning it.

Please feel free to peruse threads' past.


The point is that people with kills under their belts need to stop shitting on alternative suggestions and/or slight tweakings of the strategies that be. Nobody wants you to adjust your strategies, but you may have resources that others do not- or hell, we may end up with a strategy that works better than the established one(read: the way you're killing it vs the way everyone started killing it)

If you don't like discussion, you're free to go go elsewhere. There's a drops thread in the media section if all you're looking for is confirmation of the same and pictures of an airlixer+2

[Prothescar]

For emphasis, a BST would have to put out only 11% of the group's total damage output to be on par with the DRG parse figures posted.

[Doofus]

RNG was for the bee, and assumptions are different than verified strategies

and a bst cannot put out 11% on tojil

[Djohn]

You're right that BST might be viable if it could take off 10% of the mob's HP right off the bat. That's a pretty big if, though, and we're not going to test it for you. In fact highly I doubt you'd be able to land any BST debuffs reliably given how hard it can be to enfeeble these mobs for RDMs that actually have access to a shit-ton of m.acc gear unlike BST pets. (Just ask Botosi about silence)

Also, if you don't have an Upukirex DRG you probably don't have a Kerehcatl BST.

[Dotsudoku]

Really Doofus, nobody cares. We know your strategy, and we believe you when you say it works well. If you don't want to listen to alternatives, leave, but stop shitting up the thread with your whining about Delve discussion in the Delve discussion thread.

[Prothescar]

RNG was for the bee, and assumptions are different than verified strategies

and a bst cannot put out 11% on tojil

Do you have any evidence to support your claims of "they can't do it!", or are you just saying it because you have feels that are telling you that BST is terribad and can't do it? If it's the former, I'll totally submit. If it's the latter, then there's 0 reason to dismiss this outright as you have been for the last however many pages.

You're right that BST might be viable if it could take off 10% of the mob's HP right off the bat. That's a pretty big if, though, and we're not going to test it for you. In fact highly I doubt you'd be able to land any BST debuffs reliably given how hard it can be to enfeeble these mobs for RDMs that actually have access to a shit-ton of m.acc gear unlike BST pets. (Just ask Botosi about silence)

Also, if you don't have an Upukirex DRG you probably don't have a Kerehcatl BST.

Seriously where are you people even getting these ideas from? No one is telling you personally to bring a bloody BST to Delve.

As for BST pet magic accuracy, some Ready abilities have an unquantified natural macc bonus attached.

[Doofus]

pretty sure everything im saying it discussion about delve, just because you disagree with it doesnt mean i cant post it, if i see a theory in here that makes sense i will support it all the way, but what you guys are suggesting is just insane

and i base my thoughts on years of playing bst, i used so many gooeys, that shit never lands, and wouldnt have a hope in hell on landing on tojil, nor would it help in killing the other NMs

[Djohn]

Seriously where are you people even getting these ideas from? No one is telling you personally to bring a bloody BST to Delve.

As for BST pet magic accuracy, some Ready abilities have an unquantified natural macc bonus attached.

Sorry, my point was more that there isn't much point discussing it further until someone actually tries it... and that someone won't be us.

[Prothescar]

Purulent Ooze is expressly known for landing on everything, not nothing. There's a handful of things that outright resist it.

[fantasticdan]

pretty sure everything im saying it discussion about delve, just because you disagree with it doesnt mean i cant post it, if i see a theory in here that makes sense i will support it all the way, but what you guys are suggesting is just insane

and i base my thoughts on years of playing bst, i used so many gooeys, that shit never lands, and wouldnt have a hope in hell on landing on tojil, nor would it help in killing the other NMs

What were you fighting that resisted it? I've yet to see it fail to land on anything.

[Prothescar]

Sorry, my point was more that there isn't much point discussing it further until someone actually tries it... and that someone won't be us.

Very well then, you aren't being asked to. I'd probably have stopped talking about it an hour and a half ago if someone here didn't keep on keeping on with the "lawl you guys are idiots just stahp" style shit.

[Jem]

how is our strategy alternative? our strat is the only one that has been proven reliable

How is your strat the only proven reliable method when we were consistently killing Tojils before the melee method even surfaced? Pretty sure nobody had a proven Tojil kill before we posted our kills.

I wasn't suggesting you guys take a BST. Hell, my LS won't even let me try it on BST and my BST actually has Delve Boss item access. I was just throwing it out there as an alternative for if someone did want to try it.

The spreadsheets says Kere BST is ~15-25% behind a decked out Bereaver DRK. Nobody is saying it's a top tier DD. We're talking about a weaker DD that also brings Steps + Killer Instinct to the table. So basically it boils down to is Killer Instinct (10% Damage boost, -10% DT for party 80% of the time) + Steps worth a 15-25% step down in damage from a 'lesser DD' (Bereaver DRK or non-Upi DRG). Anything that a pet could actually land past that would be an added bonus.

Purulent Ooze is just an added bonus if it does work but I don't think it will because I've been informed it doesn't work on T1-5 mobs so it isn't landing on Tojil.

[Darkmagi]

If turtle could actually land def down, that would probably be a reasonable enough reason to bring it.

[Doofus]

How is your strat the only proven reliable method when we were consistently killing Tojils before the melee method even surfaced? Pretty sure nobody had a proven Tojil kill before we posted our kills.

well if that's the case then my mistake, a lot of people just posted that they killed and were less than forthcoming about how so i wasn't sure, we based our strat off a JP blog post i believe, modified it a bit to fit our job selection

and i know i come across as dickish sometimes, but i dont intend it to be that way, i just think time should be spent on theories with more substance