Delve

[Diomer]

We are having a tough time stunning TP moves on Delve NMs and bosses. What are stunners doing to reduce lag from Geo spells and are they using a 3rd party program or not?

Suck less is the appropriate response to this. Really though, some people just can't stun things; whether it's due to a legitimate reason or a bullshit one... they just can't do it. Just find someone who can or you can use 3rd party programs if you really want to go that route.

[grevenilvec75]

I've found that I really can't rely on the chatlog to stun things so I just watch the mob to see if its readying a tp move. Downside is that you end up stunning random tp moves, but upside is that you are much faster.

It helps a little, but we really aren't all that great at stunning either.

[Idkmybffjill]

We are having a tough time stunning TP moves on Delve NMs and bosses. What are stunners doing to reduce lag from Geo spells and are they using a 3rd party program or not?

The 2 main stunners for our group use animation stunning for the Trex since we just stun everything. For stuff like tremor on kurma or calcifying mist from peiste I watch the chat log. I don't think 3rd party tools are necessary, just turn all the chat filters but the first one in each group on (I personally everything on me and the first 2 of each group off), and turn off all effects but monster >>> stuff (i'm pretty sure, I have all effects on). If that doesn't work you need a faster internet connection or better reflexes.

[Arthars]

anything outside 100ms you cant stun most instant WS looking at chat logs, eg. Frog Chorus type of fast semi-WS

best bet is stun everytime you see "red" WS lines

i know many people been using stun bots so thats another option i guess

[macross]

Any progress on shark yet? We got 2 pops, still working out the kinks practicing before we waste em.

[Slycer]

anything outside 100ms you cant stun most instant WS looking at chat logs, eg. Frog Chorus type of fast semi-WS

best bet is stun everytime you see "red" WS lines

i know many people been using stun bots so thats another option i guess

Yeah, if you're stunning TP moves in general, and not any specific one, you should be able to stun consistently if you just watch for the red/orange "TP-move charging" lines that radiate around a monster.

[Skeelo]

Any progress on shark yet? We got 2 pops, still working out the kinks practicing before we waste em.

Ive been harassing my ls to try it every day. Hoping to try the same set up we do for Tojil, but might be safer to use rngs i dont know. What plans do you have for it? Mobs do you plan to lock?

[fighterx]

Regarding BST, on the test server I was unable to land Max HP Down on Chapilu, Scorpion and Mastop (force pops). Tried multiple times even with pet M.Acc Axes x2 but it just wouldn't stick.

I used Mastop to test Corrosive Ooze because he can bounce enfeebling effects back to players making it very easy to tell if its landing. Sure enough, I went 3/3 on Corrosive Ooze, and each time he would use Emetic Discharge and transfer the -ATK/-DEF effects back to me.

With the effects on me my ATK went from 697 > 464 (-33%) and my DEF went from 379 > 253 (-33%).
Further testing on trash monsters I timed the duration of Corrosive Ooze to be 75~80 seconds by method of /check for changes in defense.

Someone should test to see if BST's Corrosive Ooze overwrites BLU's Frightful Roar or DRG's Angon by checking for the "No Effect" message in log. This would make it very easy to confirm if it lands on other NMs and mega boss.

[noodles355]

Any progress on shark yet? We got 2 pops, still working out the kinks practicing before we waste em.

A few of us have some ideas in our shell but the boss has just shelved shark for now in favour of tojil.

Foret NMs should be pretty easy to 5/5 farm with some time left over to test out shit on shark. And I've been trying to push that option a bit, but seems like it's morimar or ceizak onry atm.

[Djohn]

Delve MB/Plasm Axe/Axe Bst has higher DPS than a Upu Drg. Like 40ish compared to 32.5ish I think? On top of that, Ruinator is stronger than Stardiver. Assuming 5/5 for both, capped fstr for both (favours polearm as higher fstr cap), 200 base STR, upu vs kere, Ruinator is 17% more damage than Stardiver BEFORE you account for Ruinator's pDif boost if you're not attack capped.

Higher DPS, Higher WS Dmg, Better Debuffs (if accurate enough to land). You can't argue for Drg over Bst unless you're using Drg as a Decoy Shot bitch (And even then, an argument can be made for Snarl).

My Drg is 99 with all the good r/e shit (muled). My Bst is 10. I'm in no way prejudice, but for dmg+debuffs, if pet accuracy on aforementioned debuffs is good I can not logically suggest a drg over a bst, equally geared with delve MB weapons.

BST doesn't have jumps and will get very little out of its SP ability for the purposes of Tojil whereas DRG can make pretty good use of Spirit Surge. I'm not a DPS spreadsheet expert so I'd be curious to see if someone could do the math while accounting for that. DRG also gets a free 35 acc from job traits and the higher acc gain from DEX for 2H weapons. If you're going to be trying to keep Corrosive Ooze on, then you won't be benefiting from killer instinct. Also, regardless of whether you can land Corrosive Ooze, I'd think you'd have a hard time just keeping your pet alive within range of Tojil. Even with all TP moves being stunned, there is a substantial amount of AoE damage being done by his "normal" attacks. You could bring the pet in to use the TP move and then move it back out but that's time lost DDing for the BST and then you need some way to get TP for the pet. Mulsums can keep the pet alive, but time spent using mulsums is time not spent DDing. You might think BST looks good on paper, but DRG rather nicely avoids the entire logistical issue of actually keeping a pet debuff on Tojil.

In any case, there's no way you're keeping corrosive ooze up full-time:

Further testing on trash monsters I timed the duration of Corrosive Ooze to be 75~80 seconds by method of /check for changes in defense.

That move requires 3 charges, so even with 5/5 ready recast merits (which isn't very good) you're looking at over a minute of downtime with one BST, and that's assuming you can even land the full duration on Tojil.

If there's another def down debuff that lands reliably and lasts longer than the recast time, then maybe BST could be competitive after the 1H update, but I don't see it happening before then unless BST has a massive acc gear advantage that I'm unaware of.

[Jem]

Any progress on shark yet? We got 2 pops, still working out the kinks practicing before we waste em.

We've tried it twice. First time we got it to 60% and it was messy. Second we got it to 40%. We were well on course to win second time but then hate became awful because it spammed the hate reset move. And we know it was purely down to hate reset because the people it went for were the BRD's lol

We did get unlucky though because one of our PLD's couldn't quite get back into position for Marine Mayhem after one of its casual strolls for BRD lunch so it KO'ed him. Slim chance that we may have won if he stayed up because it meant every time he did hate reset after that, we were boned.

We have an idea of how to fix it for next run but if we lose again, we'll probably wait for next update I think. As long as you can stop him wandering around, you can probably beat him.

His HP was visible for the entire fight for us too.

[Jem]

DRG also gets a free 35 acc from job traits and the higher acc gain from DEX for 2H weapons.

That doesn't really matter for Tojil / Morimar. I had capped ACC against Tojil yesterday as Kere/Hala WAR with uncapped Axe skill (380), gimp gear, Sushi, Madrigals (no SV as it wasn't a kill attempt) + Hunters and presumably GEO debuff. So BST isn't going to have any acc issues.

EDIT: To give you an idea of how shitty the set was

Spoiler: show

Kere / Hala / --- / Ravagers
Yaoyotl / Asperity / Brutal / Suppa
Armada / Karieyh / Rajas / Mars
Letalis / Zoran / Ares +1 / Mikinaak

(Basically it was 'What DRK gear can my WAR wear because I have 2 minutes to get to Morimar and quickly write some macros')

[Renzy]

We've tried it twice. First time we got it to 60% and it was messy. Second we got it to 40%. We were well on course to win second time but then hate became awful because it spammed the hate reset move. And we know it was purely down to hate reset because the people it went for were the BRD's lol

We did get unlucky though because one of our PLD's couldn't quite get back into position for Marine Mayhem after one of its casual strolls for BRD lunch so it KO'ed him. Slim chance that we may have won if he stayed up because it meant every time he did hate reset after that, we were boned.

We have an idea of how to fix it for next run but if we lose again, we'll probably wait for next update I think. As long as you can stop him wandering around, you can probably beat him.

His HP was visible for the entire fight for us too.

Awesome job on your attempts so far, it looks like you're well on the way to killing it soon.
I just have a couple of questions;

My linkshell hasn't really messed with Foret aside from killing the T1 and 5 NM's for Key Items, we sort of burned those 2 NM's down with a party of Mura SAM's. From the Info that's been given so far, I can't see that party setup being optimal for a boss attempt.

We're most likely going to do trial runs on each NM to see how fast we can kill them before we carry out any real attempt towards a Boss kill, but I'm curious as to which NM's you decided to lock for your Shark attempts?
Also in regards to the KO moves and the hate reset move (which I think is Protolithic Puncture?) How fast are those TP moves? What is the Sharks stun resistance like?
would you say it's viable to carry over our Tojil strategy and use 2 SCH's to essentially lock it while melee's blast it?

[ccl]

Shark resisted stun from start for us. We didn't have geo macc/meva down but since those allow for 50 stun ish on Tojil, I'm not sure a melee zerg will work(unless there is a way to stun it).

If you can stun Tojil(speed wise) you can stun shark.


We lock I and V, II III IV die very fast with rng(IV slighty slower).


edit: rng way can def kill it but might need ammo update or more practice @ the fight to 100% win it with rngs.


edit2: for what's it worth, we didn't get the "immune msg" on stun(is there one I'mnot sure), but it did resist shield bash stun.

[Jem]

Ccl posted whilst I was on the phone but this was already typed up so may as well post it.

The NM's we left unlocked were Orobon and Uragnite first try, Pugil and Uragnite second. I would guess a melee strat would do Pugil + Orobon.

The KO move has decent charge up. I honestly don't know on Puncture. I would think both would be stunnable if you can get stun to land which brings me to stun.

Stun resistance is a tricky one. On on our first attempt we could not get stun to land at all whilst its HP was visible (it resisted though, not immune). When it went invisible again, stun landed without a problem whatsoever. Our first attempt pre-dated Tojil zergs though and we did not think to try the M Eva GEO debuff. It might be possible that the HP bar thing is pure coincidence too (Our first fight HP was visible until ~66%, second fight always visible). On our second attempt we didn't take a stunner but PLD's said that Shield Bash stun did not land.

Melee strat might be viable. Would be contingent on Stun landing reliably which we did not try. One thing to remember though, it has ice spikes (unsure if permanent or just when aura is up but Aura has been up like full-time for us). I'm not sure how potent the damage from the spikes is but the PLD's complained about the paralyze a lot (EDIT: To the point where we had them not engage at all for second try)


It has roughly the same HP as Tojil and is reasonably squishy. So would probably depend on stuns landing and just how debilitating paralyze is to melee DPS.

[Pebe]

So workable strats for 2 of the 3 delve bosses have been found with only the shark remaining. Out of all your experiences, do you think there is anyway to make a workable strat for these with BLMs? The main jobs that I play are sch, blm,geo(lol can you even call this a main yet ),cor and RNG and out of those I don't think I've actually had a reason to jump on blm besides bismarck in the last year >.>. Just seems kind of disheartening that magic damage via nuking is in such a poor state at the moment. I'm assuming SE wanted nuking damage for Tojil for the first 25% (probably one of these reasons they nerfed twilight scythe), but the community has found more efficient and safer ways to bypass that with formless strikes. Also, how is magic evasion on the bee? Could the spamming of blizzaja(bypasses shadows and damage stacking etcetc) magic burst take it down in time? lol guess you would have to use multi hit weaponskill to make sure they shadows don't mess up your skillchains.

Edit:
Now that I think about it I guess the set up would be for bee if it was possible:

PLD PLD WHM BRD Skillchainersx2?
BLMx3 GEO SCH COR
BLMx3 GEO SCH COR

indi focus x2, geo magic eva-, geo magic def-, hailstorm, klimaform, magic acc rolls, magic attack rolls
Meh this idea sounds less reasonable now because there is no way to buff the accuracy of the skillchainers >.>
meh

[Jem]

Oh forgot to say for shark

100 > 75 - Seemed to be piercing weak but could have been normal too
75 > 50 - Seemed to have PDT / we did way lower damage
50 > ??? - Damage was normal. Hard to compare to 100 > 75 as we were in trouble buff wise at this point

[Renzy]

Thanks for the info ccl and Jem, it definitely doesn't sound very melee friendly, ice spikes and an unreliable stun rate makes me lean towards a RNG strategy.
I'm not sure when it'll happen but we'll likely be doing some trial runs soon, I'll keep you posted on our findings

[noodles355]

I think it would be melee friendly if we could figure out what affects aura.

And that's exactly why I've asked our leader previously "Why don't we just 5/5 farm Foret and use any left over time to figure out aura and test random shit on shark?". It's not as if we'd be wasting beads, and most non-event days are just spent 5NM farming Morimar anyway.

[dasva]

Regarding BST, on the test server I was unable to land Max HP Down on Chapilu, Scorpion and Mastop (force pops). Tried multiple times even with pet M.Acc Axes x2 but it just wouldn't stick.

I used Mastop to test Corrosive Ooze because he can bounce enfeebling effects back to players making it very easy to tell if its landing. Sure enough, I went 3/3 on Corrosive Ooze, and each time he would use Emetic Discharge and transfer the -ATK/-DEF effects back to me.

With the effects on me my ATK went from 697 > 464 (-33%) and my DEF went from 379 > 253 (-33%).
Further testing on trash monsters I timed the duration of Corrosive Ooze to be 75~80 seconds by method of /check for changes in defense.

Someone should test to see if BST's Corrosive Ooze overwrites BLU's Frightful Roar or DRG's Angon by checking for the "No Effect" message in log. This would make it very easy to confirm if it lands on other NMs and mega boss.

On test server I'd assume you were solo so how did you get those nms low enough to really see if it landed?