Delve

[Arthars]

i thought winning first time takes skills and winning after is easy O_O you work opposite!!!

but yea pugs stunners can just waste a fuck load of time when they fail totally XD

general JP pug rule for a stunner....
1. Must not be on PS2
2. must have mag acc gear and FC(obviously)
3. stun bot? XD

[Mafai]

i thought winning first time takes skills and winning after is easy O_O you work opposite!!!

but yea pugs stunners can just waste a fuck load of time when they fail totally XD

general JP pug rule for a stunner....
1. Must not be on PS2
2. must have mag acc gear and FC(obviously)
3. stun bot? XD

This just in, winnable with 4 songs only (Marchx2 Mad Min). Other 4 song BRD dc'd and still pulled it off. Next stun was likely a resist.

[Darkmagi]

Yeah, this is a really easy fight as long as people don't halfass their jobs. Got a 30min 5nm run today, was pretty slick.

[Arthars]

thats cos u guys all geared O_O

dont mislead first timers!!! XD

we have enough fail pug leaders shouting for melee burn cos they thought its "easy" for first timers/uncleared people ; ;

eg. Wifi atm if your in game and know who i meant... :X

[Darkmagi]

I mean yeah, it took a lot more work to get our first kill. Our DPS could have been a lot higher though, so that was against our favor. Oatixurs have made it much easier.

[Doofus]

yeah damage is pretty important along with the right buffs/debuffs/stunners, average DD just wont cut it anymore like they did in vw etc

[Ramzii]

Yeah we'd have about the same buffs as you, figure I'll throw DRG into mage pt then and have 6 mnks.

@ 5/5 NM run in 30 min, is that including the Tojil kill or just 5 NMs? Just recently started doing 5/5 NM kills and I think our record is about 31 min, end up always fucking something stupid up on Tojil.

[Doofus]

30mins is including tojil, our LS record is 25mins i think, and what are you taking out of the mage pt to put drg in? a well geared drg can do the same if not more dmg than a mnk

we do 4 mnk drk and drg, drg for dmg and usefulness, drk just for the dmg. 4 mnk is enough to keep mantra up and enough formless/hundred fists to get through 25%

[Ramzii]

30mins is including tojil, our LS record is 25mins i think, and what are you taking out of the mage pt to put drg in? a well geared drg can do the same if not more dmg than a mnk

The THF out of the mage party, it was originally THF GEO GEO SCH SCH RDM. We only have 1 Ryuno DRG, who also happens to be our best mnk unfortunately. I assume you're using GEO GEO SCH SCH RDM BRD or GEO GEO SCH SCH SCH RDM?

[Doofus]

The THF out of the mage party, it was originally THF GEO GEO SCH SCH RDM. We only have 1 Ryuno DRG, who also happens to be our best mnk unfortunately. I assume you're using GEO GEO SCH SCH RDM BRD or GEO GEO SCH SCH SCH RDM?

we take a pld, theres not really a need for it, but it adds some safety into the pulls, and it tanks the matamata

[Arthars]

dont over rely on MNKs being the main DDs

4 MNK is more than enough to tear first 25% (with 100 fish + formless > WC > formless again, getting 100 fist recharge is bonus)

then DRK and DRG for the slash and pirece phase (75 to 50 pierce, 50-25 slash) is very good too

and then of course 4 mnks for blunt phase (last 25%) to finish that thing off

6 MNKs doesnt mean faster kills, infact, its overkill for first 25% and last 25% and u just doing normal or wasting a lil more time for 75 to 25% than having 1 drg and 1 drk

[Doofus]

dont over rely on MNKs being the main DDs

4 MNK is more than enough to tear first 25% (with 100 fish + formless > WC > formless again, getting 100 fist recharge is bonus)

then DRK and DRG for the slash and pirece phase (75 to 50 pierce, 50-25 slash) is very good too

and then of course 4 mnks for blunt phase (last 25%) to finish that thing off

6 MNKs doesnt mean faster kills, infact, its overkill for first 25% and last 25% and u just doing normal or wasting a lil more time for 75 to 25% than having 1 drg and 1 drk

we dont wild card till after 3mins, when the second mantra goes on and the second angon goes off, gives us another round of JA songs and chance at everyones 2hrs, and stuff like mantra, angon, souleater, just lots of dmg even if you dont hit a 5 or 6

[Arthars]

ah yea my bad, forgot about the 2nd mantra

mantra > 100 fist + formless > mantra > WC

angon etc will fall in between

[Ramzii]

Hmm, alright. I'll see what I can do. Again the problem with our good slashing DD is that they're also our best MNKs and we outparse the midtier mnks by a good 5-10% per NM depending on which one. Not sure it'd screw us over in the long run if we used midtier mnks and high tier drg/drk.

How would SAM do? We have a few really good SAM without MNK/DRK/DRG

[Mythe_Seraph]

Hmm, alright. I'll see what I can do. Again the problem with our good slashing DD is that they're also our best MNKs and we outparse the midtier mnks by a good 5-10% per NM depending on which one. Not sure it'd screw us over in the long run if we used midtier mnks and high tier drg/drk.

How would SAM do? We have a few really good SAM without MNK/DRK/DRG

From reading I think the biggest problem with SAM is their lack of utility in the fight. DRG and DRK both offer something essential. Angon + DMG + Hate shedding, and DRK can do the best DMG + Stun + other DRK stuff.

SAM and WAR seem to have been shafted it looks like.

[Arthars]

well, if your burning tojil melee style, it is always assumed that you already have won before, so the drk will most likely have a senbaak nagan, which is highest damage weapon so far, + oatxiar, also highest mnk damage weapon

drg is there for the angon like above mentioned, utility wise, also SP jump for more def down

SAM and WAR is ok too if you already have really good mnks cos for now, i cant really think of a weapon better than delve boss weapon they have access to and can do better or on par....

if not, i believe everyone wants a fast and reliable way to winning, and drg drk(with senbaak) and mnk(with oatxiar) is your best combination

if you wanna get melee burn for a first win then u really need good players that dont half ass because it is important to kill it before it starts to resist stuns, and R15 rigors and bereaver is almost the bare minimum

for peeps who think "come on its only a few stats for R2 and R15" then you are the reason why sometimes your sch gets resists and you still cant kill it

[Ramzii]

We've yet to win. We took it down to 80% once without stunning a single TP move but it was incredibly messy. We don't have 4 99 relic rngs either to rng burn it down first. We've all got proper accuracy setups, but it might not be ideal due to no tenryu tekko +1s etc. We were thinking of only stunning 4/6 tp moves to help with the stun resistance.

Unless you just meant that we need to do it with beads first, which is the plan unless we get lucky and win a 5/5 + tojil dry run

[Arthars]

hmmm if your sch are good with stuns and have good FC acc gear, i would recommend you to seal 1 or 2 NMs (matamata beads r cheap, and eft/raptor is easy to burn)

this way u have a lil more time for boss not because of kill time, but people will suck less when more time are available (proven fact lol)

peeps tend to "forget" something or butter fingers on a tight run

[fantasticdan]

Are the TP moves slow enough you can choose which to stun from log, or is everyone just botting stuns?

[Ramzii]

We practiced stunning calcifying mist tonight and by the end we had it at about a 90% success rate, and from what I remember, Tojil TP moves have longer charge ups so I'm not worried about missed stuns anymore. We'd be beading mata/peiste/kurma until we have oatixurs. May even not bother beading peiste as we got it down to 3.5min with all mists being stunned.

They are stunnable without a bot. I've hit shoulder tackle with over a second to spare on every TP move but they obviously didn't land.