Delve

[Motenten]

@Byrthnoth:

If you turn off Show Individual Damage, the graph will show a line of the total damage done, so you can get a more precise measure of what time it took to reach various percents. From my analysis of our last attempt, I think Tojil has 1.3 mil HP, not the 1.2 mil listed on BGWiki. 75% happened at ~325k damage, 50% happened at ~650k damage, based on corresponding chat timestamps of when people noted those percent values.

I'm curious about the DPS rate your mnks had during the first (magic) phase. For our last run, they were at ~440 DPS during Hundred Fists, and ~300 DPS after that. It took a total of 260 seconds after the mnks first engaged for them to drop it to 75%. Formless Strikes (with AF2 body enhancement) lasts 210 seconds, so it took us nearly a full minute after that.

For the 75% mark to be hit by the time Formless wears off, you'd need 1550 total DPS during that time period. If the two non-mnks contribute 40% of a mnk's damage each, each mnk needs to average 322 DPS. If you have 1 minute of 440 DPS per mnk (damage from the mnks only; ignoring the other two), it should be at 92% HP left by the time Hundred Fists wears off. If each mnk maintains 305 DPS after that, and each of the two non-mnks average 120 DPS, it should hit 75% by the time Formless wears off. Add in the damage from the non-mnks during the Hundred Fists period and it should hit 75% before Formless wears off.

If, for some reason, your mnks don't have augmented AF2+2 legs (as at least a couple of ours didn't), then you'd expect... almost exactly the pattern we saw in our fight. 45 seconds of Hundred Fists plus ~170-205 seconds of normal melee (depending on a couple other variables), putting you past the inital Formless Strikes time limit, and further slowing you down.

In order to drop it to 85% by the time Hundred Fists wears off (as Julian asserts), the mnks would have to be pushing at least 700 DPS. While there's undoubtedly room for improvement in their gear sets, I can't see our mnks going from 440 to 700 without at least Oatixurs (though I'll note that my spreadsheet estimations indicate Oatixurs plus a couple other gear changes could expect to increase DPS from a 500 base to about 700, so I would not be surprised if that's a target to be reached once all the mnks are fully upgraded). It just doesn't seem to be a reasonable target to hit before that point, though.

[Helel]

gotta do bee next week so.......wondering how people deal with chapuli and fly...

Do the rng simple /ra the chapuli and WS on the flies? Also for 4 anni and 2 yoichi, how do you decide the skillchain order?

if light WS day = which > which ws?
dark WS day = which > which?

i havent review the SC chart so....... im lazy sorry ><

We start WS on chapuli @20%. You just have to make sure the RNGs time it properly so it doesn't do 0 damage.

For light: coronach <> last stand

darkness: coronach <> coronach

We don't use/have yoichi RNG but namas <> namas is light also.

We also Eagle Eye Shot the chapuli (and barrage of course) to speed it up. Also needs to be timed appropriately (during casting probably best).

[Byrthnoth]

These were our cumulative graphs:

Spoiler: show

The one that ends in a plateau is the one that we didn't win. They have different y-scales because we killed the Matamata first time and raptor the second. You can see that we actually did a better job keeping buffs even the second time (just a minor inflection when songs and stuff started wearing).

125k damage to Tojil got him below 4% on our second run (TParty read 3%, ~1.3mil predicted). The first run, we did 128k damage to Tojil and killed him but it was a shorter fight (1100 seconds vs. about 1700). I bet he has some minor Regen.

[dasva]

Are threnodies landable on the bosses?

[Jem]

Just went back to check our logs to see what our 100 > 75 speed was like

[22:36:45]Dimpson uses Hundred Fists.
[22:36:48]Ccl uses Hundred Fists.
[22:36:51]Tsumikiri uses Hundred Fists.
[22:36:53]Hyden uses Hundred Fists.

[22:38:40]Jem uses Resolution.
[22:38:40]Tojil takes 2945 points of damage.
[22:38:41]Jem hits Tojil for 294 points of damage.
[22:38:43]Jem hits Tojil for 310 points of damage.

[22:38:45]<Ccl> 75%

[22:38:50]Jem hits Tojil for 738 points of damage.
[22:38:52]Jem hits Tojil for 718 points of damage.
[22:38:53]Jem uses Resolution.
[22:38:53]Tojil takes 7117 points of damage.

So basically ~2 minutes. (Souleater popped at 75% point so slightly more of a damage increase than expected)


Also, I always said it had ~1.3m HP even before people started melee zerging it! I think it's probably 1.25m though.

[Kujah2010]

-25% eva you say?

[Byrthnoth]

It's supposed to only be -20 evasion, I think? https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Infrasonics

[Jem]

It's supposed to only be -20 evasion, I think? https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Infrasonics

Isn't that the BLU version though?

[Kujah2010]

You laugh but I've landed infrasonic 2/2 on the matamata... so it can definitely land on delve nms and so far my testing has shown rather significant evasion down. Like it looks -25% though the numbers don't come out exactly but assuming the acc page calcs on bgwiki are correct on one mob it went from 397 evasion to 296-299 and another went from 524 to 390... downside is it's kinda funky. Like with no chat filters I still don't get the message it wears off. It seems like it doesn't decay or if it does it doesn't for the first minute or so but then starts to fast but that was more likely that it wore off early since it looked to be about half full duration. Seems more accurate at higher tps though I've certainly landed it on nms with 100. And for some reason it misses Twitherym a bit the longer the fight goes on. I'll get more testing later maybe find a higher evasion mob... was using the highest lvl vt twits I could find... but my internet going out 3 times a minute soemtimes made that alone take 2 hours so will do later. If anyone knows any decently higher xp mobs I can use /check on I'm all ears

?

[fantasticdan]

Blu spells are radically different (weaker) than the TP moves they originate from, where as jug pet moves are not. Bst infrasonics (what dasva was talking about I think?) is probably much stronger than the blu version.

[dasva]

Yeah blu is only -20 flat out. I recently retested it and it's quite crap. ~ -25% (seems to be a little off our weird rounding not sure but within 1-3 evasion on each test I've done) is the jug pet version which is insane

[Kujah2010]

Y u guyz h8 me ? :<

[Motenten]

@Byrth: Ok, those graphs look like they're for the entire run. Can you restrict them down to just the Tojil fight?

[Byrthnoth]

Okay!

Spoiler: show

You can see a very pronounced shoulder in the winning one where our buffs obviously wore. Without that, I'd say that fight was pretty much on track to kill him before stun started resisting. If I'm eyeballing this right, we did about 800,000 damage in 270 seconds, which gives us a combined DPS of about 3000. The DPS was sustained for about 5 minutes, so it couldn't all be due to 2-hours (especially when Monks were doing only 80% of their normal damage during that time).

The second run, our DPS is much lower even when zerging (~875,000 in the first 500 seconds, so 1750 DPS).

[Fake]

Also, I always said it had ~1.3m HP even before people started melee zerging it! I think it's probably 1.25m though.

It has 1.32-1.33m HP, all parses within that range using setups that don't do any skillchains.

[Julian]

In order to drop it to 85% by the time Hundred Fists wears off (as Julian asserts), the mnks would have to be pushing at least 700 DPS. While there's undoubtedly room for improvement in their gear sets, I can't see our mnks going from 440 to 700 without at least Oatixurs (though I'll note that my spreadsheet estimations indicate Oatixurs plus a couple other gear changes could expect to increase DPS from a 500 base to about 700, so I would not be surprised if that's a target to be reached once all the mnks are fully upgraded). It just doesn't seem to be a reasonable target to hit before that point, though.

Ok, looking through some logs, here's some numbers for you guys:

1st tojil win:
Start: [20:09:27]Juliano hits Tojil for 92 points of damage.
[20:09:37]Juliano uses Formless Strikes. (mantra, got stunned, then did formless)
[20:11:40]Juliano's Formless Strikes effect wears off.
So a little bit over 2 minutes 100>74. Considering the 1st minute is 100 fists, that should be about 82-85% when 100fists wears off, no?
[20:18:04]Skeero defeats Tojil.

~9:30 min total fight, i think stuns were starting to resist?

2nd win: (still no oatixur's, didn't have any in alliance until start of 3rd fight)
[21:23:21]Juliano uses Formless Strikes.
[21:23:29]Juliano hits Tojil for 196 points of damage.
[21:25:41]Juliano's Formless Strikes effect wears off.
[21:29:49]Xdark defeats Tojil.
2min10ish, 6.2min fight.

At this point, I bought an oatixur and we synthed the gsword for the drk. 3rd fight:

[23:59:10]Juliano hits Tojil for 141 points of damage.
[23:59:22]Juliano uses Formless Strikes.
[00:01:45]Juliano's Formless Strikes effect wears off.
2:25, dont remember what happened this run, must of missed a stun or it started resisting, but we took a full wipe, pld held with reraise, we got up and killed it. This was the run we reported stun resistance resetting, because we were able to stun it once we fought it.
[00:18:07]Drais defeats Tojil.

4th run: (think still 1 oatixur and the gsword at this point)
[21:31:51]Juliano uses Formless Strikes.
[21:33:31]Juliano's Formless Strikes effect wears off.
[21:37:22]Warmachineprime defeats Tojil.
1min40 100>75, just slightly under 6min fight

Fast forward to full oatixurs, our run last night:

[15:06:58]Juliano uses Formless Strikes.
[15:08:10]Juliano's Formless Strikes effect wears off.
[15:11:39]Swanseatom defeats Tojil.
1m10sec on 100>75, it pretty much hits 74% when hundred fists wears off/few seconds after, 4min40ish sec fight, don't even need to rebuff mid-fight anymore.

[Jem]

It has 1.32-1.33m HP, all parses within that range using setups that don't do any skillchains.

Hmm, let's see. Our last 2 parses.

248741 / 235300 / 233134 / 221878 / 205164 / 193167 / TOTAL 1337384
261748 /259094 /231911 / 221076 /200528 /167823 / TOTAL 1342180

Both include 2-3 adds.

EDIT: Lemme check 100 > 75 and 100 > 0 splits for Byrth/Mote

Parse 1 - 100 > 75 = 2:00 / 100 > 0 = 5:47 (0 Deaths)
Parse 2 - 100 > 75 = 1:41 / 100 > 0 = 6:19 (3 Deaths @~20%)

[Motenten]

Winning run looks like you hit the 25% mark at about 120 seconds (discounting the first 10 seconds of engaging and whatnot), which is comparable to Julian's assertions and samples. 2700-2900 overall DPS.

Julian hit the 75% mark in 120 seconds on his first win run, which is an average 2700 combined DPS. That would be somewhere in the 550-600 DPS per mnk range, averaged between Hundred Fists up and down, so Hundred Fist DPS should be in the 700 range, as claimed.

Second run looks closer to our run, where we hit 800k total damage at 490 seconds. 1750 combined DPS for the first phase would put individual mnk DPSs around 400ish, which is also similar to ours.

Actually, it's interesting that the first ~80 seconds has a much lower slope than the rest of the fight. That should be the period while Hundred Fists is up, but also ends well before the first 25% is done, so if anything the slope should go -down- after that point. The combined DPS for the first ~80 seconds is roughly 625, which is awful. Combined DPS after that point is around 1550.

So there's some key difference between those two runs that takes this from extremely difficult to quite doable.

What key item or combined items changed that could allow roughly a 50% increase in damage done (if it's a missing buff/debuff), or 33% reduction in damage done (if it's a buff Tojil puts up)? It had to be something pervasive, since the damage slope is pretty constant for most the fight in both runs, rather than a simple missed dispel (which should eventually be hit, which would cause the slope to change) or buffs wearing off for short periods of time.

[Motenten]

-double post-

[Jem]

Well it roars on pull. So could be that 1 fight never gets that dispelled whereas the other did. Or it uses Batholithic early (or wtf its called) and it doesn't get dispelled (Wiki lists no defensive bonuses for this outside stoneskin but maybe there is?) Or possibly 1 fight has GEO's 2hr'ing and the other doesn't.

EDIT: Or maybe bad COR rolls?