Delve

[Diomer]

This it not true, a lot of people that could stun legion cannot stun Tojil due to it being too fast.

Hope I'm being whooshed here, but I don't see how that's possible; Tojil TP moves are really long and if you can stun in Legion then you should have absolutely no problem stunning Tojil.

[Jem]

The issue with these types of gimmicks is the same as it always has been. Why bother with the gimmick if it is just as effective to put the current bandwagon weapon through its face?

Hope I'm being whooshed here, but I don't see how that's possible; Tojil TP moves are really long.

He's not whooshing you.

[Tymon]

Tojil is slower than the peiste, but faster than Legion mobs.

Requiring a very complex action during a TP move isn't a strategy anyone is going to use if you can kill it otherwise. That's like locking 2 hours on AV; there's such a tiny window to do it right it's nearly impossible.

Hope I'm being whooshed here, but I don't see how that's possible; Tojil TP moves are really long and if you can stun in Legion then you should have absolutely no problem stunning Tojil.

Zone lag, mostly.

The issue with these types of gimmicks is the same as it always has been. Why bother with the gimmick if it is just as effective to put the current bandwagon weapon through its face?

Setups.

You gain:

1) The ability to drag out the fight, great for people without the boss drops getting their first kill
2) Leniency on job setups

[ccl]

Hope I'm being whooshed here, but I don't see how that's possible; Tojil TP moves are really long and if you can stun in Legion then you should have absolutely no problem stunning Tojil.

I'm not whoosing you, some of our sch that could stun legion couldn't stun tojil, it was really annoying we had to make other people go sch.

[grevenilvec75]

Setups.

You gain:

1) The ability to drag out the fight, great for people without the boss drops getting their first kill
2) Leniency on job setups

This.

No way in hell will my LS ever beat these in their current form. But if theres a nice trick to make the fight easier who knows.

I'm not whoosing you, some of our sch that could stun legion couldn't stun tojil, it was really annoying we had to make other people go sch.

ppl who have bots?

[Diomer]

Zone lag, mostly.

That used to be a large factor in Legion at points as well though, but there really isn't any discernible difference between the TP move speed of Legion mobs/Tojil from what I've seen. I think we can all agree that Peiste and Turtle are harder to stun than Tojil is though.

[ccl]

Some do, but don't need bot to stun Tojil, I don't ask every sch if they stunbot it or not cause honestly as long as it's done idc, I know that JP does it w/o bot at least.

[ccl]

That used to be a large factor in Legion at points as well though, but there really isn't any discernible difference between the TP move speed of Legion mobs/Tojil from what I've seen. I think we can all agree that Peiste and Turtle are harder to stun than Tojil is though.

Oh I agree with peiste 100%, we very often eat it's tp move and I only saw one sch stunning tortoise song on log, was a JP said it's done legit but I don't know.

[Tymon]

I wasn't aware stunning song was possible. I've played a friend's SCH twice and can adequately stun Tojil 100%, Peiste about 85-90% but Kurma only <50%

[ccl]

I wasn't aware stunning song was possible. I've played a friend's SCH twice and can adequately stun Tojil 100%, Peiste about 85-90% but Kurma only <50%

Either you need to bot or the latency outside of japan is really bad, song seems instant to me this is why I remember it.

[Jem]

This.

No way in hell will my LS ever beat these in their current form. But if theres a nice trick to make the fight easier who knows.





ppl who have bots?

You definitely don't need bots to stun these although your stunners do need to be good / have half decent latency. Bots obviously make it more foolproof though.

What is stopping you from killing these btw? Not getting high enough DPS or don't have the stunners?

[Tymon]

I can't speak for him but the collaborative group I run just can't get the consistency in people.

Getting better obviously but on this server where there are MAYBE 60 top tier NA/EU players to work with, and over 20 of them are accounted for, you have really big problems collaborating to get anything done.

edit: having our top 2 stunners (and only good ones) on vacation until August hurts too..

[Fake]

Tojils tp moves are not fast, zone can lag but if you aren't lagging/jp then its easy to stun. Pieste is faster but you can animation stun everything reliably except delta thrust is fast enough to get through even if your stunners are good. Tortoise song is too fast to stun reliably (the few times I've seen it stunned were probably random stuns) but breaths/tremor aren't, idk about headbutt/stomp.

Also stun botting these doesn't work unless you have a stun bot that coordinates itself in a stun order.

[Fondue]

I wasn't aware stunning song was possible. I've played a friend's SCH twice and can adequately stun Tojil 100%, Peiste about 85-90% but Kurma only <50%

I said this 20 pages ago and taint said I was wrong, you cannot log stun anything but tremor from kurma >_> edit; idk about breaths, pretty irrelevant as far as my stunning is concerned, I basically just leave one char on event stunning tremor and free stunning on my better sch

[dasva]

Also stun botting these doesn't work unless you have a stun bot that coordinates itself in a stun order.

Would it be that hard to add something like that? Be in a loop to stun stuff if you got an appropriate tell get out of it after stunning till next tell?

[fantasticdan]

Or you can just turn your bot on when it's your turn to stun, off when it's not.

[Mafai]

You definitely don't need bots to stun these although your stunners do need to be good / have half decent latency. Bots obviously make it more foolproof though.

What is stopping you from killing these btw? Not getting high enough DPS or don't have the stunners?

A bot doesn't guarantee a win even. If you fight it in the wrong spot the lag is an issue. Like I said before I think clients are bottle necking in that main room the boss pops in and you're not processing the TP move before it happens. My PC pretty good, and have had issues when fighting in bad spots.

[Yugl]

Any zone lag will kill stun bots and NQ stuns, so fixing that is your primary concern. Sometimes the issue isn't the zone though. I've recently had severe lag due to a faulty network adapter driver.

As for Delve v Legion, I had Legion lag until some unspecified point (Probably when I fixed the driver, but could be before that). Within Delve, unlike Legion, you have enclosed space and GEO spells 4x, so that could explain why stunners have greater issue with Delve.

[Fondue]

Spoiler: show

nobody wants to try stunning in our ls and the few that do literally cannot do it due to their lag, be it computer or internet

so I get to do it

[Rhealana]

None of our SCH stunners (including myself) use a bot on Tojil; the only time we miss a stun is when we mash our macro and watch the little R0 indicator flash with nothing moving. Tojil's TP moves are so horrendously slow we've lagged AND still got off the stun in time. Or our DRK notices we're not stunning something and still fires off a stun/bash in time.