Delve

[Sukian]

Just going to post this here for those who haven't fought yet or want to see a win, if people ask I'll post job set up and any other details. Note no stun bot, I was stunning on Failacious and Chika was other stunner and you'll see a couple things get through XD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs2u8...ature=youtu.be

I'll attest to Helel, I dont think it was on this run but another I remembered to use my af2+2 pant augment and I was able to stun nearly the whole time (I let the other sch throw out 2-3 stun while I impacted) I never really had a strategem problem though but our fight is faster since we had oatixur mnks/senbaak drk.

[Helel]

Yeah, in another group (ihina's), we had one tojil where I almost didn't even have to stun due to the other SCH's rasa still being up by the time the mob died, but all MNKs had oatixurs. I'd say 1 SCH is plenty, and perhaps preferred, since you have access to more fast cast (caster's roll) and more magic accuracy (warlock's roll with RDM likely in the party). I think it's easier to stun without having to worry about a rotation as well, though I guess the entire group is dead if that one SCH lags out.

The only reason we tried it is because we simply didn't have any other option, but it worked better than expected. Just make sure COR has relic body for random deal, otherwise strategms will not get reset.

[Yugl]

Just killed Tojil with 1 SCH/BLM as the only stunner (me) and COR. I used 5 charges, rasa for 3:30m, used 4-5 charges, told COR when to random deal me, used 4-5 charges, told COR to wild card, 4-5 charges, random deal, etc. although we got lucky and he reset my 1-hour, so I just used rasa again. None of the MNKs had oatixur so the fight took relatively long, but strategms were never an issue. I probably would not have run out even without 1-hour reset. Something to try for people who don't have 2 SCH/BLMs. The COR can also provide warlock's roll and caster's roll, which is enough -recast to stun back-to-back (no need to rotate BRD in, or even embrava, as long as SCH's gear is good).

What are you doing for back-to-back mists?

[Yugl]

Administrative reminder: No bot discussion allowed. This is for your own protection because we do have individuals that monitor the site. You can question the validity of a strategy by asking whether they used a bot, but you cannot solicit, give instructional advice about, or ask about bots. Check yourselves.

[Cairthenn]

Why use a definitive strategy when you can use one that works some of the time with obvious holes?

How could I have never thought of that?

[Sukian]

I think the obvious answer is, if you don't have the people available you still have an option going the solo sch way (albeit it isn't as safe) best strategy =/= only strategy.

[Cairthenn]

A good group knows (well, should know) where they can make adjustments. A group having trouble should probably not go for "this might work".

[Raistlinratt]

A good group knows (well, should know) where they can make adjustments. A group having trouble should probably not go for "this might work".

What options does a group have? Either go with 2 schs or not go at all? If there are no other options, why shouldn't a group go with "this might work"?

There is no time investment in these strategies, you go in, kill 5NMs, kill boss, profit. No beads, no cost except stone for entry and food used. I don't see why some people don't deserve the opportunity to try to win. But then again this is the BG forums, i'm supposed to come on here and be as negative as possible, say things like suck less, and generally be an asshole and discourage people from trying? noted

It is very likely that some people won't try without a good 2nd sch stunner, now they know its possible? Information is information. This specific information isn't meant for good groups (which would have optimal setup), i see no reason to trash it, just ignore it (like the good groups would do anyways).

[Sukian]

Pretty sure helel's group were having difficulty and made the adjustment to what he said and worked for his group? Wouldn't that make sense for other groups too where they dont have 2 good schs but only 1 able to stun? I see plenty of people complaining about lag/ability to stun so I don't think Helel's suggestion is in the realm of "this might work".

Not saying groups should switch to it or its the best strategy. But what works for one group might work for another.

Edit: raistlin beat me too it :3

[Cairthenn]

If most first-win groups need more than 40 Stuns (that's 4 a minute, given that first wins are reported to be about 10 minutes (and 4.5 a minute is a more accurate number, looking over logs)), you'd be looking at running out right near the end (9 minutes in or so) if you didn't have a second TR.

And how are you handling double-TP move usage? It happens, especially on Peiste (I've witnessed it once ever on Tojil, so not as frequent there, I suppose?).

It's "this might work" because it literally has chance elements that aren't attributable to peoples' competency. Your tirade really wasn't necessary.

[Raistlinratt]

Why use a definitive strategy when you can use one that works some of the time with obvious holes?

How could I have never thought of that?

Being an asshole for someone mentioning a possible way to kill it (with obvious holes they already mentioned) wasn't necessary either, but hey...this is internets.

We already mentioned that the strategy isn't very solid, but if your group doesn't have an option, why not try it? It obviously CAN work. Peiste getting off TP moves doesn't mean the end of a run either, quit acting like it does.

Let the groups who don't have 2SCH try it, they can bring an extra something else to help? another rdm to backup stun? or whatever, its an extra slot...

As previously mentioned, there is no real cost to trying it this way, you get atleast 10k plasm for killing the 5NMs anyways.

[Cairthenn]

That one post was in reply to Yugl, anyways.

--

Missing a Stun on Peiste is not a wasted run, but it does slow things down, often enough to the point that you may be pushing your luck on time (this is pre-win, of course). And the strategy actually requires that the extra SCH has a COR, so no free slot, either.

Doing some basic math makes keeping strategems look really questionable without getting Tabula Rasa back, though. It's just something to be aware of.

[Asymptotic]

I don't know about you guys, but when Calcifiying Mist gets off it takes every ounce of willpower in my being to not use that Ontic Extremity and just go see Star Trek or something.

[bechyni]

another rdm to backup stun?.

This is the best thing you've said yet.

[Raistlinratt]

This is why I shouldn't even bother. Get on here, people being assholes for no reason. Then I try to say something, more shit gets picked apart and ppl troll all day.

I don't go mage to anything, i have no idea if thats even viable, but his argument was, what happens when it does back to back TP moves and only 1sch stunner, is it unrealistic for any other job to be backup stun in this rare case? If so fine, take whatever...but don't be an asshole about it. Now I see that he takes an extra COR for the 1sch. Would it be too hard to say "He was taking extra cor, no extra slot, RDM couldn't stun it anyways" ? No, lets be an asshole.........and people wonder why groups don't get on here and reveal information about the new NMs before others discover it.

Please teach me how to play the game, I R noob. And if at all possible, be an asshole while doing it.

I'll stop cluttering up thread, my bad

/rages and storms off like a small child, saying "fuck you guys, i'm going home"

@Bechyni : Do you even lift?

[Yugl]

My bad on the wording. I meant to say you can ask whether a strategy is applicable to your group by asking whether the strategy requires a bot.

[fantasticdan]

Administrative reminder: No bot discussion allowed. This is for your own protection because we do have individuals that monitor the site. You can question the validity of a strategy by asking whether they used a bot, but you cannot solicit, give instructional advice about, or ask about bots. Check yourselves.

Or let the bot discussion go on, and let those 'individuals who monitor the site' take note that so many players (probably the majority of non-JP groups) are using bots to clear this content, and actually investigate the programs/adjust the content?

[Lah]

Or let the bot discussion go on, and let those 'individuals who monitor the site' take note that so many players (probably the majority of non-JP groups) are using bots to clear this content, and actually investigate the programs/adjust the content?

I'm torn how I feel about the current state of game, I think stun locking shouldn't be a legit strat for anything but nerfing the fights would just make everyone equal and leave nothing for better groups to strive for and be proud of.

[Jem]

None of these strategies require a stun bot. It obviously helps if you are using a stun strat but is by no means required. Your mileage is going to vary depending on your stunners competency / lag / gear / etc.

I'm torn how I feel about the current state of game, I think stun locking shouldn't be a legit strat for anything but nerfing the fights would just make everyone equal and leave nothing for better groups to strive for and be proud of.

All 3 of them are killable without stun locking. It just isn't as efficient due to needing Beads.

[Yugl]

I would prefer free discussion of bots, but that's off-topic discussion within the Delve thread. We honestly cannot have a reconciliation elsewhere either because the issue isn't whether SE does or does not fix their game. The issue regards the ramifications for the website and users. In short, stick to your Trex, Shark, Bee, Tree, and Bird discussion.