Delve

[Taint]

No, jems group said they ran into no DT issues. It was taints group that had trouble afaik.

Yeah we ran into crazy -DT issues that Moten graphed out for our first 2-3 attempts. Last attempt (win) the DT never got crazy.

[Darkmagi]

Yeah, I just don't think we really have it figured out what causes or removes the DT if people were able to blow through it with rng only setups.

[macross]

Could just be skill chains, with all relics bow/ guns you constantly do light and drk scs.
But yea our first kill was with 1 drg 5-6 rng and 1 drk. Drk did nothing cause couldnt hit it. Didn't notice the DT really, prob cause range attack formulas are different.

[Kidnoftle]

Or perhaps that it has no dt-% at all. On all of our runs on muying our dmg always stalls when sv buffs drop. Its hp post that point will decrease slower due to nq buffs if wc isn't successful. Haven't really seen anything that compelling as to it having dt-%.

[Darkmagi]

It absolutely has DT, can't confirm RNG DT, but melee damage goes to absolute shit.

[shepardG]

I think we killed bee in like 5 mins with 5 rngs? all had relic 3 guns 2 bows, (i subbed /whm on rng cause i'm a boss, and also stupid) It was a ridiculous complete joke. however, according to the RNG DPS spreadsheets, you need every drop of acc you can get unless you have SV preludes, Gun or bow, using squid sushi (this includes the prime 4 corsair rolls, hunter/chaos/corsers/STPorSAVETP). If your SV wears, your DPS drops dramatically even with perfect R.ACC gear on a 99 relic. with new ammo.

On a side note, everyone making senbaks, but the Echidna's bow, using refugelent arrow, with the Shark KI Ammo, is within like 10-5 DPS of 99Annilator+Shark KI Ammo w/ Last stand. Gun wins, but the gap is so small, with lag/human error/computer lag being factored in it will probably be neck and neck.

I didn't try out the blunderbuss(+1) w/ shark ammo, but it probably pulls quite a bit ahead of echidna's+shark bullets.

And as for the hate issue, If you have a relic, you should be able to use echidna's/blunderbuss with Decoy up, most optimal RNG TP & WS gear covers you on the -20 enmity you need to shoot completely hate free, so /WAR shouldn't be an issue.
and when Decoy shot is down 40% of the time, if your worried, use your relic.

My question/input though is what sort of optimal setup could we use to farm bee+5nm's. 5/6 RNGS is nice, but getting all 5 NM's down with that many ranged DD's seems daunting. Any advice/theories?

[Helel]

Like 95% sure sidewinder is a better WS than refulgent arrow, unless you have 300 TP for some reason.

With the STR/AGI adjustments, accuracy is no longer really an issue. I actually forgot to swap to my accuracy gear once SV wore off, and I was still able to hit him decently well. I don't think I missed a single coronach either. You can keep red curry bun up as well until SV drops.

RNG damage is pretty retarded with the new ammo. 1.2k regular shots to the butterfly 10k coronach, 900+ to chapuli, so I wouldn't worry about RNG damage much. However, you need multiple damage sources for mastop, so melee party + rng party would probably be ideal. Scorpion always takes the longest for us though. Earthbreaker stun is so annoying.

As for hate/decoy shot, decoy shot does not transfer enmity from weapon skill, so non-relic users will probably need /DRG, and even relic users should probably /DRG. Though, if you can kill bee fast enough, /WAR might be okay.

[shepardG]

hmmm, yeah guess i was spamming namas, i'll have to see, but yeah refugelent + TP spill over + STR modifier seems to win, however all my spreadsheet data was with the old spread sheet forumlas, lol :*(. So have to re-approach when the motenten updates the formulas.

or just go kill the bee a bunch more time for dat "real world" testing

[Byrthnoth]

I don't know what kind of party you guys roll with, but we've found DRG/DNC (Samba) and stunning Hell Scissors speeds up the scorpion. DRG/DNC is also useful on Mastop. Obviously it's a damage hit for the DRG but . . . you're already bringing a DRG.

[macross]

I go sam/dnc cause no one else wants to be the low dd shrug.

[Darkmagi]

Well, SAM probably loses the least from switching SJ.

[shepardG]

cor/dnc still here.

[macross]

Can cor/dnc hit the mobs?
I'll prob go war next time and play with ixtab, but then again prob need the mura to kill gnat and bee fast enough.

[Helldemon]

I don't know what kind of party you guys roll with, but we've found DRG/DNC (Samba) and stunning Hell Scissors speeds up the scorpion. DRG/DNC is also useful on Mastop. Obviously it's a damage hit for the DRG but . . . you're already bringing a DRG.

So why bring the drg if you apparently don't need it?

[Taruina]

Angon and piercing DMG phases for Mega Bosses, I assume.

[Helldemon]

Then he shouldn't complain about drg's damage being low if he needs drg's damage lol.

[Diomer]

I don't know what kind of party you guys roll with, but we've found DRG/DNC (Samba) and stunning Hell Scissors speeds up the scorpion. DRG/DNC is also useful on Mastop. Obviously it's a damage hit for the DRG but . . . you're already bringing a DRG.

The old lolDRG stigma doesn't really hold nowadays for a good Upukirex DRG in Delve. Our main DRG can keep up with all DDs on all mega bosses pretty easily. Scholars can just stun Hell Scissors for you really or as someone else suggested: a RDM chainspell stunning under 50% should get the scorpion almost dead before CS wears. SAM would probably be a better job to /DNC on if you really wanted to go that route like Macross suggested as the loss would be much less for the SAM than it would be for the DRG.

[Prothescar]

Wondering if having MNKs do Formless in the early stages of the fight then doing normal dmg for the last 50% or so would alleviate the double -DT issue

[Arthars]

we did the full rng thingy on muyingwa, didnt notice DT also.... first 25% WS was doing for 5-6kish, and then normal 2-3k till 25% and i didnt really look at full logs if it got DT since we used bolster def down that time

below 25% it still die within 2 mins afaik rngs still doing in the region of 2kish

i believe there is DT- but for piercing, it dont really seem that bad still

also tried a few pugs melee/rng hybrid style.... yes mnk dmg did went to shit at 25% but rng still doing "ok" damage compared to total shit dmg from mnks..

[Detzu]

Could just be skill chains, with all relics bow/ guns you constantly do light and drk scs.
But yea our first kill was with 1 drg 5-6 rng and 1 drk. Drk did nothing cause couldnt hit it. Didn't notice the DT really, prob cause range attack formulas are different.

You do all 5 NMs + bee or you're beading? You probably have good rngs if you're doing all.