Delve

[Prothescar]

Requiescat issue is either a lack of buffs or some weakish confirmation that it's a separate term from Murasamemaru, which I don't think is the case. As far as I've surmised, Murasamemaru is a major damage source for things like that crab because it melts when you're using them, Requiescat shouldn't be any different provided adequate buffs/debuffs and if it uses the same term as Mura.

On a monster with 2100DEF, 750EVA, 200VIT, and 200AGI (might be lowballing, these are inflated based on the projected stats I was given for Tutewehiwehi which is notably one of the squishiest delve NMs) you'd be looking at an average Requiescat of around 4048 before factoring in DT penalties or bonuses. This assumes lucky Chaos, Angon, 5x Box Step, Dia+LS, Frailty, Berserk, Triumphant Roar, and 4 +5 Minuets, though. Say you remove the Box Step, you're looking at a much lower average of 2675. Remove Angon, 1799. The weaponskill is extremely reliant on defense and attack debuffs/buffs to be viable, which is one of the primary reasons that it's pretty terrible on high end content; unless things are perfectly aligned, you're going to have a bad time.

[Sukian]

Am I missing something? People keep preaching its nice to have someone /dnc for the box step.

20% = Double light Shot Dia II
25% = Angon (with hands, 20 without)
13% = Fraility (double with bolster)

58%. With 1hr jump its 53%. You should be pretty much capped the entire way through. I understand that the pld is usually /dnc but I rather have the pld focus on holding mobs or if its super clean help toss cures (namely @ shark)

[shepardG]

I do 1800-2k requisquats on krabguy on cor/dnc.... i don't know how your buffs were, but something tells me a blu should be doing more than that.

[Fwahm]

Am I missing something? People keep preaching its nice to have someone /dnc for the box step.

20% = Double light Shot Dia II
25% = Angon (with hands, 20 without)
13% = Fraility (double with bolster)


58%. With 1hr jump its 53%. You should be pretty much capped the entire way through. I understand that the pld is usually /dnc but I rather have the pld focus on holding mobs or if its super clean help toss cures (namely @ shark)

If Prothescar is right about Tutewehiwehi's defense, then you need 1985 attack or more to cap on delve NMs with that much defense down. I'm not sure I get that much even with SV minuets, and you need even more if your WS has an attack penalty. I'm not sure how you're "pretty much capped the entire way through" with only -58% defense down.

If you add level 5 box step, then you only need 1371 attack to cap.

[Yeager]

Aaaaaaand the video of the kill http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6oDD...ature=youtu.be

Makes me want to upgrade a Gun for my RNG. Sadly my Marksmanship is laughably gimp because I went BOW ONRY on Ranger.

[Jem]

Makes me want to upgrade a Gun for my RNG. Sadly my Marksmanship is laughably gimp because I went BOW ONRY on Ranger.

Took me about 3-4 hours to cap Marksmanship from 250 (I think that was COR 75 cap) just spamming bloody bolts on worms with repeating crossbow in Abyssea whilst watching TV. I wouldn't let that deter you.

[Yeager]

Took me about 3-4 hours to cap Marksmanship from 250 (I think that was COR 75 cap) just spamming bloody bolts on worms with repeating crossbow in Abyssea whilst watching TV. I wouldn't let that deter you.

Just to give you an idea on how bad it is.....my throwing skill is higher than my marksmanship skill. And my throwing skill is @ 80. It will take a little more time, I think. Besides, I'm main GEO for my Delve group so I don't have much reason to upgrade a gun.

We just had a go at Tojil on Shiva. It was bad....very bad. Still no NA win on Shiva to my knowledge.

[dasva]

Just to give you an idea on how bad it is.....my throwing skill is higher than my marksmanship skill. And my throwing skill is @ 80. It will take a little more time, I think. Besides, I'm main GEO for my Delve group so I don't have much reason to upgrade a gun.

We just had a go at Tojil on Shiva. It was bad....very bad. Still no NA win on Shiva to my knowledge.

Awhile ago I took bow from like 80ish to whatever the cap was at 90 in the time it took me to get the 5 lvls to 90 and cap merits (Forget how many you could get back then). Good atmas, cruor buffs and food help you to hit things despite having crap skill. Might help being that low to get some racc gear too but you probably already have some

[Yeager]

Yeah, I have a pretty good amount of R. Acc gear. My main concern is trying to figure out why we can't down Tojil on Shiva.

[dasva]

Don't worry pretty sure we haven't over here either lol

[Sukian]

If Prothescar is right about Tutewehiwehi's defense, then you need 1985 attack or more to cap on delve NMs with that much defense down. I'm not sure I get that much even with SV minuets, and you need even more if your WS has an attack penalty. I'm not sure how you're "pretty much capped the entire way through" with only -58% defense down.

If you add level 5 box step, then you only need 1371 attack to cap.

I thought cap was 50% but the more I look I can't find it... can anyone confirm def down cap?

[Malithar]

Don't worry pretty sure we haven't over here either lol

AFAIK, best NA attempts (on Bahamut) are a 3 bead attempt that timed out at 40%, and multiple 5 NM kills that just don't end up with enough time to do much with Tojil.

[shepardG]

Do you guys not have any 3/4 song bards? its not required or anything, it just makes things super easier.

LIke, are your sch's manually stunning TP moves? are dd's eating sushi, at most pizza? were no LS's clearing legion? i would assume a legion group should make the transition with little difficulty.
Voice comms should be almost required if you cant get organized enough to even get to tojil with 15min to spare.

[Helel]

Requiescat issue is either a lack of buffs or some weakish confirmation that it's a separate term from Murasamemaru, which I don't think is the case. As far as I've surmised, Murasamemaru is a major damage source for things like that crab because it melts when you're using them, Requiescat shouldn't be any different provided adequate buffs/debuffs and if it uses the same term as Mura.

On a monster with 2100DEF, 750EVA, 200VIT, and 200AGI (might be lowballing, these are inflated based on the projected stats I was given for Tutewehiwehi which is notably one of the squishiest delve NMs) you'd be looking at an average Requiescat of around 4048 before factoring in DT penalties or bonuses. This assumes lucky Chaos, Angon, 5x Box Step, Dia+LS, Frailty, Berserk, Triumphant Roar, and 4 +5 Minuets, though. Say you remove the Box Step, you're looking at a much lower average of 2675. Remove Angon, 1799. The weaponskill is extremely reliant on defense and attack debuffs/buffs to be viable, which is one of the primary reasons that it's pretty terrible on high end content; unless things are perfectly aligned, you're going to have a bad time.

With best gear possible minus the new MND gloves, I can reach up to 6k requiescat on krabakarpo, regardless of how many scissor guards/bubble curtains (BLU is certainly best DD for krabakarpo). Same for jagil. Less on orobon, 3-4k. Craklaw and uragnite take weird damage so numbers on them are kinda pointless. Unfortunately, I normally don't go BLU so I can't provide numbers vs. other mobs. It's certainly not terrible vs. high end content, though. It just really sucks vs. shark for some reason, and vorpal seems to provide better numbers, which is never the case on any other mob I've encountered. I think most people will agree that the shark's defense is certainly not anything special. It's very easy to cap ranged attack for instance. In fact, none of the final bosses seem to have any more defense than the regular NMs, just different -DT phases. There's something very different about the shark when it comes to requiescat damage. I'm just not sure what.

I had chaos roll, SV minuets, sushi, bolstered frailty, dia 3+1, box step, and angon/spirit surge jump. We still killed it fast enough, so maybe I'm just overestimating WS numbers. I don't know what other DDs' weapon skill numbers normally are? I know my RNG does 6-7k coronach, except during 50-75 phase (seems strong vs. piercing at that point). That was before I had access to the new bullets too, so I'm sure it'd be much higher now.

Based on mura #'s vs bee and mine vs shark, it seems like they, the bosses, have some inherent resistance vs this type of damage. I've only had experience twice on BLU vs shark though, so it's not much to go on.

[Yeager]

Do you guys not have any 3/4 song bards? its not required or anything, it just makes things super easier.

LIke, are your sch's manually stunning TP moves? are dd's eating sushi, at most pizza? were no LS's clearing legion? i would assume a legion group should make the transition with little difficulty.
Voice comms should be almost required if you cant get organized enough to even get to tojil with 15min to spare.

We have a Daurdalba BRD, and a Gjallarhorn BRD. We also had 2 CORs, 2 GEOs, 3 SCHs stunning as many TP moves as they could. Our DDs are eating Sole Sushi, Marinara Pizza +1, etc. etc. AND we are communicating on a Vent server.

Our best attempt at a x5 NM + Tojil was when we killed all 5 NMs with 2 minutes to spare, and timed out when Tojil was being pulled. Last night, we did 2 runs. One run we beaded out Matamata, leaving 4 NMs + Tojil. We had about 6 minutes remaining for Tojil, only managed to get it to 90% before timing out. The final run, we beaded out Eft, Peiste, and Kurma. We wiped to Tojil at 74% after fighting it for around 10 minutes.

[kenshyn]

We have a Daurdalba BRD, and a Gjallarhorn BRD. We also had 2 CORs, 2 GEOs, 3 SCHs stunning as many TP moves as they could. Our DDs are eating Sole Sushi, Marinara Pizza +1, etc. etc. AND we are communicating on a Vent server.

Our best attempt at a x5 NM + Tojil was when we killed all 5 NMs with 2 minutes to spare, and timed out when Tojil was being pulled. Last night, we did 2 runs. One run we beaded out Matamata, leaving 4 NMs + Tojil. We had about 6 minutes remaining for Tojil, only managed to get it to 90% before timing out. The final run, we beaded out Eft, Peiste, and Kurma. We wiped to Tojil at 74% after fighting it for around 10 minutes.

Have yall run detailed parses of the fights? Its the best way to see if you have the correct amount of dps and acc for each fight...

When you analyze the fight with parses it becomes apparent where the issues lie in the strategy of the fight ala below:

@Byrthnoth:

If you turn off Show Individual Damage, the graph will show a line of the total damage done, so you can get a more precise measure of what time it took to reach various percents. From my analysis of our last attempt, I think Tojil has 1.3 mil HP, not the 1.2 mil listed on BGWiki. 75% happened at ~325k damage, 50% happened at ~650k damage, based on corresponding chat timestamps of when people noted those percent values.

I'm curious about the DPS rate your mnks had during the first (magic) phase. For our last run, they were at ~440 DPS during Hundred Fists, and ~300 DPS after that. It took a total of 260 seconds after the mnks first engaged for them to drop it to 75%. Formless Strikes (with AF2 body enhancement) lasts 210 seconds, so it took us nearly a full minute after that.

For the 75% mark to be hit by the time Formless wears off, you'd need 1550 total DPS during that time period. If the two non-mnks contribute 40% of a mnk's damage each, each mnk needs to average 322 DPS. If you have 1 minute of 440 DPS per mnk (damage from the mnks only; ignoring the other two), it should be at 92% HP left by the time Hundred Fists wears off. If each mnk maintains 305 DPS after that, and each of the two non-mnks average 120 DPS, it should hit 75% by the time Formless wears off. Add in the damage from the non-mnks during the Hundred Fists period and it should hit 75% before Formless wears off.

If, for some reason, your mnks don't have augmented AF2+2 legs (as at least a couple of ours didn't), then you'd expect... almost exactly the pattern we saw in our fight. 45 seconds of Hundred Fists plus ~170-205 seconds of normal melee (depending on a couple other variables), putting you past the inital Formless Strikes time limit, and further slowing you down.

In order to drop it to 85% by the time Hundred Fists wears off (as Julian asserts), the mnks would have to be pushing at least 700 DPS. While there's undoubtedly room for improvement in their gear sets, I can't see our mnks going from 440 to 700 without at least Oatixurs (though I'll note that my spreadsheet estimations indicate Oatixurs plus a couple other gear changes could expect to increase DPS from a 500 base to about 700, so I would not be surprised if that's a target to be reached once all the mnks are fully upgraded). It just doesn't seem to be a reasonable target to hit before that point, though.

[Dotsudoku]

We have a Daurdalba BRD, and a Gjallarhorn BRD. We also had 2 CORs, 2 GEOs, 3 SCHs stunning as many TP moves as they could. Our DDs are eating Sole Sushi, Marinara Pizza +1, etc. etc. AND we are communicating on a Vent server.

Our best attempt at a x5 NM + Tojil was when we killed all 5 NMs with 2 minutes to spare, and timed out when Tojil was being pulled. Last night, we did 2 runs. One run we beaded out Matamata, leaving 4 NMs + Tojil. We had about 6 minutes remaining for Tojil, only managed to get it to 90% before timing out. The final run, we beaded out Eft, Peiste, and Kurma. We wiped to Tojil at 74% after fighting it for around 10 minutes.

10 minutes in the magic phase means your DDs have remarkably bad accuracy. There's really no other explanation for that. WS sets are mostly irrelevant, ratio matters considerably less- they're either not using Formless or flat out not hitting it

[Darkmagi]

Also probably a pretty severe case of sucking less. It's astounding how many players with perfectly normal gear that are absolutely terrible.

[Taint]

We have a Daurdalba BRD, and a Gjallarhorn BRD. We also had 2 CORs, 2 GEOs, 3 SCHs stunning as many TP moves as they could. Our DDs are eating Sole Sushi, Marinara Pizza +1, etc. etc. AND we are communicating on a Vent server.

Our best attempt at a x5 NM + Tojil was when we killed all 5 NMs with 2 minutes to spare, and timed out when Tojil was being pulled. Last night, we did 2 runs. One run we beaded out Matamata, leaving 4 NMs + Tojil. We had about 6 minutes remaining for Tojil, only managed to get it to 90% before timing out. The final run, we beaded out Eft, Peiste, and Kurma. We wiped to Tojil at 74% after fighting it for around 10 minutes.

Do you Embrava Kurma? That was a big time gain for us.

DDs should just use sushi IMO unless you have extremely organized buffs. Going from 95% to 85% ACC is a big DPS loss even if its just for a minute, it also keeps ACC capped while DDs are in Hybrid or full PDT sets during Raptor, Kurma or a spammy Peiste.

Are DDs dieing? 5 NMs should take 30min tops even with Rigor MNKs.

Our first few wins were 10-12minutes.

[kenshyn]

Also probably a pretty severe case of sucking less. It's astounding how many players with perfectly normal gear that are absolutely terrible.

Shiva atm is pretty terribad guys really don't parse and actually check that their accuracy is terrible it's pretty sad......