Delve

[Tymon]

Really depends on the difference in exu uses. For example with purely made up numbers just to illustrate a point let's say you just use brd debuffs and it takes like 5 minutes but because of the DT you only get it down to 70% in that time. Let's say using all debuffs takes it down in 2 minutes. True you healed it a bit and basically did no dmg in those 2 minutes but then in the next 3 you get it down to 60%. Again purely made up numbers to illustrate how it could slow things down. And again not sure if it's changed haven't fought it in a bit just remember several horrible runs where it would refuse to use exuvation without tons of debuffs on it

I'm missing you on one specific point here.

It uses exuviation at exactly the same rate using just BRD debuffs.

The only difference is it doesn't heal itself with it. I understand your point about it refusing to use the ability though. That would be the core reason behind not doing it. My observation was that it did not give any issue whatsoever in that regard though. We had 2 BRD casting Threnody, Elegy, the Addle song (the name escapes me, it's 1am) and Requiem on it the entire time.

For finality's sake, a few timed kills:

Kill 1, all debuffs. We decided to start killing it after about 1 minute and 40 seconds. From that point it took about 3 minutes and 15 seconds to die. That makes the total fight 4 minutes and 55 seconds.

Kill 2, only BRD debuffs. We were DDing the entire time, it used Exuviation for the 20th time at around 2 minutes and 10 seconds (we started Kill #1 at around 14-15) and was already at 60%. It died 1 minute and 50 seconds later, making the total kill time 4 minutes.

tl;dr if you're really strong you save about a minute. It's totally inconsequential, but still a fun little trick.

[Dammerung]

We bugged it like that with GEO debuffs before, but seems random instead of repeatable and haven't seen it again. Is the BRD thing repeatable?

[Tymon]

Yes, it is. It worked 2 times after I made my initial post. In fact, it was doing that many times without actually trying to do it. It would use Exuviation about 5 times after we started killing it the normal way before songs wore off of it. At least 10 times total. We were bead farming.

[dasva]

I'm missing you on one specific point here.

It uses exuviation at exactly the same rate using just BRD debuffs.

That was exactly my point though. In case you missed it I started this all by the preamble with all the fights I had done it had taken much longer with fewer debuffs such as just brd + dia. True we didn't try just brd but I somehow doubt dia prevented exuvations. But then again all the fights I had done it never used it nearly as much as other people reported on here regardless of how many debuffs and melees we put on it for reasons that never were figured out so idk maybe all my fights were glitched or something. Haven't tried fighting it again since shortly after delve was introduced. So neet trick I'll have to try it next time if we ever get back to doing that zone

[Malithar]

Don't see where the idea of it slowing down a kill is coming from. Unless Tymon is mistaken, or his SS lies, it seems to spam Exuviation just as often as it always does with debuffs loaded. In the SS within a period of 17 seconds, it used it 4 times, with no additional debuffs shown being cast, and just a few resisted Brd songs shown. Hell I've seen it use it slower then that WITH other debuffs used lol.

Strange behavior that was never caught or a bug for sure though, I've seen plenty of Brds cast debuffs on it, though I can't vouch if they maintained them or not throughout the fight, I'd imagine not with the stigma of OMG STOP DEBUFFS after the 20 mark.

Edit: Way to not refresh the page. lol

[Xenhas]

Depending on your DD, you can just have them spam certain WS, along with the mage debuffs, to hit the 20 exus.
ie. shijin kasha stardiver

It also appears (at least for us) to use exu almost exclusively with three or more debuffs on it

[Cairthenn]

Yeah, we just have all DD on from the start, everyone using WS with additional effects. It lasts 5 minutes. We noticed the BRD thing before, but we thought it was because of GEOs.

[Darkmagi]

I misunderstood, I thought the exu wasn't counting towards the DT reduction since it wasn't removing debuffs. I know exu spam stops after X number normally, so I figured this just stopped the DT reduction from being removed.

[Squah]

To change the subject for a second, is Muyginwa's blink aura even relevant at all? I was wondering how people can kill it in like four minutes if it has 150 shadows. Do the melee just evaporate them immediately?

Nope! We use hybrid setup, and it probably has maybe 20 shadows, which gets dropped by our MNK DRG SAM in less than 10 seconds (the # of shadows is a guess, the time it takes for us to drop it is fact).

[Sukian]

Yeah clear the zone five minutes faster with RNG at a significantly higher cost. Sign me the fuck up.

Define significantly in this case >.>

Curious to see what you think the cost is. As far as I know I dont think you guys have 100% got the melee strat working in terms of negating PDT extreme 100% of the time. Lose once because of it and all of a sudden the cost in bullets is made up by garunteed success. Unless I've misread something and everythings figured out at this point to work 100%, if so I apologize.

[Tymon]

Thinking about replacing the RDM in the SCH party with SCH/RDM to give more curing support since the RNG party has no WHM.

Bad idea? Are the debuffs that important from RDM?

Need to know kinda soon running in a little while

edit: sorry, on Muyginwa. We're beading out the scorpion and Mastop.

Also is Barrage going to trigger the chapuli's evasion? Is WSing during TP/Casting 100% safe?

[Damane]

Thinking about replacing the RDM in the SCH party with SCH/RDM to give more curing support since the RNG party has no WHM.

Bad idea? Are the debuffs that important from RDM?

Need to know kinda soon running in a little while

edit: sorry, on Muyginwa. We're beading out the scorpion and Mastop.

Also is Barrage going to trigger the chapuli's evasion? Is WSing during TP/Casting 100% safe?

i would replace the RDM everytime with a SCH/RDM:

RDM offers only Tier II debuffs and Refresh II vs.

SCH:
-AoE outside PT cureing
-same debuff potency as rdm on tier I debuffs
-Embrava if needed
-nukes if needed
-higher m.acc for impact
list goes on

so yes unless you need chainspell stun you should replace the rdm with sch/rdm. This is assuming the sch/rdm is as decently geared (or better) then the RDM for its tasks.

[dasva]

After this update sch will also gain even more macc comparatively for debuffs too.

[Ihina]

Does anyone have a ballpark estimate on how much evasion the megabosses have? I've heard the numbers 800 and 900 being thrown around for tojil/shark and bee respectively. Has that range of what their evasion could be narrowed since then?

[dasva]

Also is Barrage going to trigger the chapuli's evasion? Is WSing during TP/Casting 100% safe?

Missed this but I haven't see barrage or any other ja I've used trigger it. Can't speak for evasion but ws during tp moves still can trigger natures meditation

[Ophannus]

Does anyone have a ballpark estimate on how much evasion the megabosses have? I've heard the numbers 800 and 900 being thrown around for tojil/shark and bee respectively. Has that range of what their evasion could be narrowed since then?

Wont matter after monday when most weapons are getting +60-200 acc.

[Keyoku]

I was wondering if someone could help me clarify a few details for Ceizak 1-6. When groups like Squah's do hybrid setups, what subs are the DDs? I've come across all DD/Nin, even seen sch/nin but given good Earthbreaker stuns that both seems silly and bad on dps.

Also Mastop: Does this sound about right: mnk formless, but use ws whenever s/he can, sam for slashing (so no mura needed?), drg (/dnc for samba/Box Step), cor in rng pt WF for more MA input.(or should s/he Last Stand?)

[Darkmagi]

Only thing I'd consider /nin would be whoever is on debuff duty, that wouldn't really be too detrimental and could potentially save you if scorp decided to be a dick. Not needed though by any means.

[Squah]

I was wondering if someone could help me clarify a few details for Ceizak 1-6. When groups like Squah's do hybrid setups, what subs are the DDs? I've come across all DD/Nin, even seen sch/nin but given good Earthbreaker stuns that both seems silly and bad on dps.

Also Mastop: Does this sound about right: mnk formless, but use ws whenever s/he can, sam for slashing (so no mura needed?), drg (/dnc for samba/Box Step), cor in rng pt WF for more MA input.(or should s/he Last Stand?)

Our DRG subs SAM, rest of the DD sub WAR, mages sub standard things. RDM subs BLM for chainspell stunning scorpion once it hits 45-50%~. MNK 1hours during CS stun since he only does 5-6% during Muyingwa RNG zerg, so it's better used here anyway. RNG all barrage at 45% and try to drop it as fast as possible.

Mastop: as far as I am aware, we have no magic damage on it. Debuff and standard zerg. You can try COR wildfiring but they'd need to either QD for TP or have a serious racc set. EDIT: SAM DOES USE MURA. I was wrong.

Oh, and make sure your MNK mantras for Scorpion and that someone is on Sharp Strike dispel duty. Even with scherzo and proper PDT/DEF(in light of recent information) sets, our SAMs still get oneshotted by Death Scissors. Since they're your main source of damage, the fight gets drawn oit. The more it gets drawn out, the more chances it has to fuck you with Earthbreaker.

[Fake]

I was wondering if someone could help me clarify a few details for Ceizak 1-6. When groups like Squah's do hybrid setups, what subs are the DDs? I've come across all DD/Nin, even seen sch/nin but given good Earthbreaker stuns that both seems silly and bad on dps.

Also Mastop: Does this sound about right: mnk formless, but use ws whenever s/he can, sam for slashing (so no mura needed?), drg (/dnc for samba/Box Step), cor in rng pt WF for more MA input.(or should s/he Last Stand?)

RDM/BLM CS stunning when it drops below 50% (it can use earthbreaker as soon as it hits 49%). Melees and RNG all hold tp from 55% and stack JAs like barrage to kill it fast as soon as it hits 49%. Use scherzo on DDs or they will get 1 shotted by death scissors too much, with it they are completely safe. Nobody should be /nin.

MNK can formless and WS, doesn't really matter since there won't be a ton of blunt damage compared to piercing. Mura is definitely best if you have it but its by no means essential. Assuming you are using a 3 melee pt + a 3-4 RNG pt the drg should be /sam, /dnc can be done by a cor if you really think you need it. One of the rngs would likely be best using Armageddon if they have it since you will have a lot of piercing damage. Don't stun tp moves but do stun spells.