Delve

[JSHidaka]

Therin-
obviously your comment was towards me on not bringing a pld. but no where did i see any argueing, kinda sad when someoneone has a difference on opinons its considered argueing. each LS does what works for them. we dont need a pld to get to NMs we'd rather clear adds and such. its just smoother for us. we never are in a rush on time. thats all.

but basically now the fights are a complete joke. 1-5 the NMs in 17mins and waiting at the Megaboss with 25+ mins. Killing all adds on the way. Not seeing the beads being used for anything but plasm now. or unless you dont have a mura sam and wanna bring different jobs on runsto get wins for ppl w/o the ideal jobs.
Half of the LS didnt use food to see how ACC was, 90~95% on tojil. geo's didnt use evadown either. but instead atk down on mob. But acc songs were still used. But stuns are still key and not being a total tool. PUGs will definetly start winning now though. But seeing the same jobs being shouted for.

If DD´s have delve boss weapons they have near 210+ acc/atk 2x Madrigal, Cor Roll, Geo Eva Down = 140-160 accs, soul voice 200-220, so acc wise probably sushi is more than enough, if you´re unsure about your acc.

So you really dont need even soulvoice on tojil, since you already have Embrava-haste, 3-4 Minuets, crit/da rolls, more than enough.

[Squah]

For sure bra.

What were you trying to do with that? Prove him a hypocrite? Because that's exactly the opposite of what's going on. He said he stuns for his LS, not that he can't do it. A couple people in my LS don't like to (or at least used to not like to) stun because if they got malaise and missed a stun on something as inconsequential as a Testudo Tremor, we would heckle them for it the rest of the night.

Shit's not hard bro. Just requires good reflexes, attentiveness, and a stable connection. All 3 of which are traits found in most respectable players.

[fantasticdan]

Just having a good connection doesn't ensure your ability to stun things, distance/latency to japan matters.

[Malithar]

Shit's not hard bro. Just requires good reflexes, attentiveness, and a stable connection. All 3 of which are traits found in most respectable players.

Click the spoiler? Cause that'll explain why everything you just said is moot.

[Byrthnoth]

Just having a good connection doesn't ensure your ability to stun things, distance/latency to japan matters.

Can anyone verify this? I would be unsurprised to learn that JPs also drop packets and have bad lag in Delve.

[Dazusu]

How do you kill the Krab without Mura in a timely fashion?

Both CORs and 3 DRKs spamming Requiescat.

[Fondue]

For sure bra.

Not sure what you're trying to say, stun= win if all other things were average or above. Nobody in my Ls was capable or willing to stun so I got to play both characters, or are you implying I couldn't competently stun on 1 account without a bot lol? Red lines are difficult, had to get LASIK to play ffxi

[fantasticdan]

Can anyone verify this? I would be unsurprised to learn that JPs also drop packets and have bad lag in Delve.

Can anyone verify how the internet works and that latency is a thing? rofl

I'm sure some JPs have stun issues as well due to client side lag issues, but distance based latency is going to make it extremely unrealistic for some people to stun the faster stuff (like calc. mist) reliably.

[Fwahm]

People saying it's Abyssea tier are way overstating. Keep in mind that many of you guys are completely decked out in mega boss weapons and armor, which the vast majority of people who couldn't clear before don't have. You basically got extra attack and accuracy for the DDs, and enfeebles land easier. That helps for silence, but from my experiences, the ~10 minute stun barrier is still there even with extra 70-100 accuracy for the SCHs.

The accuracy and attack helps remove the need for 6-8 song rotations, but the DDs still need to know how to gear for TP, WS, DT, and hybrid, and since we basically take the same amount of damage as before, the WHMs still need to be on point.

Pickup groups without mega boss weapons/armor still need rotations, so you need bards and cors that can rotate (at least on Tojil), and your SCHs need to be able to stun reliably, which as hard it is to believe, is beyond 95% of pickup SCHs. I've been on a dozen runs where we've gotten Tojil to <50% both before and after patch, and not a single time did I go with SCHs that could stun every Lahar, even by animation.

You guys already could do it before, with near perfect coordination, gear, timing, and strategies. Of course you can win easily. The stunning and coordination requirement still puts even Tojil beyond 80% of the english player base, unlike Abyssea, where even the most gimped players could clear 99% of it just due to the obscene buffs. That's better than it being beyond the ~95% before the patch, but it's not nearly as much as you guys are saying.

[Byrthnoth]

Calcifying Mist isn't fast and we stun it entirely reliably. Maybe Harden Shell or something that's hard to stun as NAs?

But the bigger issue in Delve is dropped packets, which I would guess probably occurs inside of SE's server farm. NAs get all the packets they're sent almost everywhere in the game except Delve, Salvage v2, etc.

Somewhere along the line, there's a bottleneck and shit is getting dropped. Now, we know that events that generate a similar number of packets (like Voidwatch) don't result in dropped packets, which indicates that the pipeline between Japan and the US isn't causing the problem. We know that we don't get all the packets we're sent in a specific set of true-instanced zones... which indicates that it's likely the way SE is handling these zones that creates a bottleneck between their own servers and drops packets.

Thus, JPs probably also have plenty of packets dropped. Barring the minor advantage that being able to stun Harden Shell would give you, they are likely not much better off than us. Distance from Japan isn't really the issue, it's this: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...log-corruption

[Gokku]

People saying it's Abyssea tier are way overstating. Keep in mind that many of you guys are completely decked out in mega boss weapons and armor, which the vast majority of people who couldn't clear before don't have. You basically got extra attack and accuracy for the DDs, and enfeebles land easier. That helps for silence, but from my experiences, the ~10 minute stun barrier is still there even with extra 70-100 accuracy for the SCHs.

The accuracy and attack helps remove the need for 6-8 song rotations, but the DDs still need to know how to gear for TP, WS, DT, and hybrid, and since we basically take the same amount of damage as before, the WHMs still need to be on point.

Pickup groups without mega boss weapons/armor still need rotations, so you need bards and cors that can rotate (at least on Tojil), and your SCHs need to be able to stun reliably, which as hard it is to believe, is beyond 95% of pickup SCHs. I've been on a dozen runs where we've gotten Tojil to <50% both before and after patch, and not a single time did I go with SCHs that could stun every Lahar, even by animation.

You guys already could do it before, with near perfect coordination, gear, timing, and strategies. Of course you can win easily. The stunning and coordination requirement still puts even Tojil beyond 80% of the english player base, unlike Abyssea, where even the most gimped players could clear 99% of it just due to the obscene buffs. That's better than it being beyond the ~95% before the patch, but it's not nearly as much as you guys are saying.

^ this shit right here try'd it with pug last night was actually the worst run ive had almost 10-15 missed stuns on piste made it take longer than the turtle i died 3 times etc etc. the DD side of this is much easyer but the support side is just as hard.

[Arthars]

its not hard to play a DD before once u get the accuracy sorted out but after the VU it has become total brain dead

if u wanna reliably do a self organized pug. all u need is gear up ur own sch to stun, and 1 more reliable friend to do so, then get 2-3 songs brd (hell tojil only need marches now, can chuck minuets/mads) and start pugging DDs

its easy to stun but u will be surprised how much people dont even care if their 1-2 mis stuns mattered since they r prolly casuals and dont care if they fail

they prolly even hoped to leech the win. fuck that and play own sch

sch is impt for all 3 NMs, whms is impt for daku, cor just need to invite fast

as for brds, seriously im not sure how to fuck this job up

i would not say it has gone to abyssea standard but for us pepple who tried since day 1, its depressing to see our current "fun" goes off like that

but still its still kinda good on SE side on releasing "hard" content for hardcores, and eventually let everyone on the server being able to casually do it so everyone can be near equal...

its really sad sometimes to see fellow players in town begging for KI sale, begging to join PT etc when we all paid the same money a month

[shepardG]

Both CORs and 3 DRKs spamming Requiescat.

YEAH NIGGA!! REQUIFFSQUAT!!!!

[Fake]

Can anyone verify how the internet works and that latency is a thing? rofl

I'm sure some JPs have stun issues as well due to client side lag issues, but distance based latency is going to make it extremely unrealistic for some people to stun the faster stuff (like calc. mist) reliably.

You tried to be a smart ass and completely missed what causes most of the stunning issues. Anyone with a stable connection in the US or EU can stun just fine, mist isn't anywhere near as fast as harden shell, delta thrust or headbutt. 90% of the "my connection is too bad to stun" "latency" excuses are all just people being incompetant at stunning.

Its clearly not just client lag, because on both JP and NA runs every single person in the alliance has experienced bad lag spikes (usually during busy periods and in certain areas). JPs do get dropped packets also, but I rarely see mob animation/tp packets being dropped, its usually the "starts casting" on spells and songs.

[Kidnoftle]

Stuff

Brd, imo, is the hardest of all the classes brought to a t6, you have to know what songs to sing when and how to rotate. I'm not saying that this is particularly hard, but its definitely harder than gearing melee to an adequate level and lulzing your way through a zone hitting your ws macro.

[shepardG]

Lol Wat? Whm or sch easily hardest job in delve I'd say.

[Rhiannon2]

Calcifying Mist isn't fast and we stun it entirely reliably. Maybe Harden Shell or something that's hard to stun as NAs?

Harden Shell is incredibly difficult to Stun, that's a given. But I honestly think Mist is "fast" in relation to other moves. I have seen SCH's who do quite well in Legion and on Tojil TP moves still miss Mist.

But I also know SCH's who have given up on allowing for the possibility of a missed Stun (because yes, they get heckled for it), and downloaded a bot or some script program that aids in Stunning specific things. It has gotten to the point that you no longer know who uses a program and who doesn't.

And to be blunt (not directing this to you in particular), you can't really take half of what's said on certain topics here for more than internet bluster.

[Malithar]

Not sure what you're trying to say, stun= win if all other things were average or above. Nobody in my Ls was capable or willing to stun so I got to play both characters, or are you implying I couldn't competently stun on 1 account without a bot lol? Red lines are difficult, had to get LASIK to play ffxi

Not so much about any of that, not even questioning your ability to stun. Its the fact that you say its not hard, people just suck, yet you were justified in botting stuns, because no one else could. Plenty of others have come here saying they've had issues with stuns or finding the people capable of doing so, and are met with "suck less" yet you're justified in botting 2x stunners, because your LS couldn't muster the manpower/ability to do so? Not trying to flame, its just ironic to me, tbh.

[Slycer]

Calcifying Mist is significantly faster than any one of Tojil's TP moves (and Muyingwa's and Dakuwaqa's also for that matter, except for Carcharian Verve) and is faster than all of Tutewehiwehi's other moves except for Delta Thrust. Someone who is stunning vanilla FFXI with no add-ons and using all of the correct filters will still almost certainly not have a 100% success rate if they are trying to stun the log text specifically for Calcifying Mist.

[Kidnoftle]

Hitting curaga3/5 and alacrity stun is pretty hard i guess. Man. T6s are hard.