Delve

[Byrthnoth]

The first strategies for these fights were without Stun, I think. They just held the monsters while rangers kill them.

[Yeager]

I can't see Tojil being possible without stun. Leave the aura up, your frontline gets wiped out; take the aura down, your backline gets wiped out.

Dakuwaqa seems similarly unlikely because of <insert action here> -> Tidal Guillotine

Muyingwa is probably possible

I went with a PUG very late last night. They beaded out Eft, Peiste, Kurma. Got to Tojil, STILL wiped at 98%. He got a TP move off right away that wiped half the DD. Stuns were very late. It was a mess.

Tojil is just not possible without Stun, and due to battle spam and/or lag, it's difficult for a human player to tell if Tojil is readying a TP move or not. Almost seems like a bot is mandatory if you want a chance at Tojil win.

[Slycer]

Tojil is just not possible without Stun, and due to battle spam and/or lag, it's difficult for a human player to tell if Tojil is readying a TP move or not. Almost seems like a bot is mandatory if you want a chance at Tojil win.

At least one of our potential stunners for Tojil uses vanilla client (not even windower); his TP moves are all sufficiently slow. For Tojil specifically, if you stun the TP move animation alone, you should have at least a 95% success rate on Stun (really it should be 100% unless you get a bad lag spike). Just need to be patient and not trigger happy. For whatever reason (reaction time, connection, whatever), there are some people who are just not capable of this. If you're trying to stun with vanilla client, you'll want to set animation and chat filters properly so that you only see what you absolutely need to see.

[Therin]

We had a Tojil wipe yesterday because one of our stunners had a program issue or something and missed a Lahar right before the 25% Blistering Roar, so we lost a ton of DD. Then he went for the mages, Slept them all and got Meteor off.

Tojil is probably possible without stun but not using the current zerging strategy. Even a group like ours that has had over a dozen wins and full cleared all three zones in less than 35 minutes can still wipe due to a missed stun or malfunctioning program.

[Arthars]

Re: Guillotine, someone may want to figure that crap out. I've seen it KO people from full or very nearly full HP if it gets off, so I don't think it's HP-based.

its like sobek, where IF you take more than 50% of your max HP, u die instantly

sitting in a DT set even if you are under the effect of def down, will always survive (charge time is long, so even if u know ur stunners will stun it, its still good to "react" to it and be safe esp after like 7 mins)

however a non-mnk taru is still possible to die from this at full health even in DT- w/o mantra

HP down > guillitine will always kill the targetted person

good to have a water carol II on u really to prevent any deaths at all (+pflug and vallation) even in full DD set

[Slycer]

its like sobek, where IF you take more than 50% of your max HP, u die instantly

sitting in a DT set even if you are under the effect of def down, will always survive (charge time is long, so even if u know ur stunners will stun it, its still good to "react" to it and be safe esp after like 7 mins)

however a non-mnk taru is still possible to die from this at full health even in DT- w/o mantra

HP down > guillitine will always kill the targetted person

good to have a water carol II on u really to prevent any deaths at all (+pflug and vallation) even in full DD set

I wonder whether it's worth relying at least partially on magic evasion in some slots now rather than MDT for stuff like this, especially if you have Barwater or something like that up already. I figured it was like Sobek, but I didn't know how his deal worked either. Where did the 50% HP info come from?

[Seha]

Idk, last week I got KO'd from Dakuwaqa with 1.5k hp in partial -dt set(was rolling) at 1 yalm distance.

[Slycer]

Idk, last week I got KO'd from Dakuwaqa with 1.5k hp in partial -dt set(was rolling) at 1 yalm distance.

The boosts he gets from Carcharian Verve are nuts, probably like +100% attack and magic attack. If the MAB wasn't dispelled, it would be pretty easy to get KO'ed by Guillotine at 1500 HP even with DT-, assuming arthars' info above is correct. Especially if you had magic defense down from Aquatic Lance.

[Kidnoftle]

I can't see Tojil being possible without stun. Leave the aura up, your frontline gets wiped out; take the aura down, your backline gets wiped out.

Dakuwaqa seems similarly unlikely because of <insert action here> -> Tidal Guillotine

Muyingwa is probably possible

Actually I was thinking about this and came to the exact opposite conclusion. If you took down aura on toj a full dispel wouldn't screw hate that quickly since acc will still be decent if you have a t6 weapon, if brds keep rebuffing march march min. Not gonna try it obv since stunning is far and away the quickest and easiest method tho. Idk, every day that goes by that we kill this we find its incredibly doable w.o a lot of things though (geos, drg, a third brd).

[Fake]

I wonder whether it's worth relying at least partially on magic evasion in some slots now rather than MDT for stuff like this, especially if you have Barwater or something like that up already. I figured it was like Sobek, but I didn't know how his deal worked either. Where did the 50% HP info come from?

With 3/5 manibozho + uk'uxkaj and a strong barwatera you will rarely take full damage from marine mayhem, you could add in a water carol or 2 if you have enough songs and probably cap your resist rate quite comfortably. Not to mention now you can eat carbonara or other hp food incase a full strength one does get through.

[JSHidaka]

I went with a PUG very late last night. They beaded out Eft, Peiste, Kurma. Got to Tojil, STILL wiped at 98%. He got a TP move off right away that wiped half the DD. Stuns were very late. It was a mess.

Tojil is just not possible without Stun, and due to battle spam and/or lag, it's difficult for a human player to tell if Tojil is readying a TP move or not. Almost seems like a bot is mandatory if you want a chance at Tojil win.

not sure if you know.. but you have "Filters".... not hard to know when Tojil is readying a move... and for lag, depending on you settings can low them a bit, and depending on the plugins you have in windower, turning some off like TPparty one, helps to lower the lag... so dont try to justify that you have to use a bot to beat him.

[Arthars]

1.5k HP isnt going to cut it..... that guillitine move easily deal 800-1k ish, esp if he is not dispelled

guillitine is 50% HP

50% thingy has been "tested" since naakual in WK reieve

you will always either die, or above 50% HP, never below

mayhem is distance but 1' yalm can still die from mayhem(EXTREMELY UNLUCKY)

most people gets confused between mayhem and guillotine

as for stunning all the naakuals.... all u got to see is "red lines"... there is enough time to stun, if u ever need to see log, its only just to double confirm its ur stun order, or to glance if its meteor/kaustra if he is casting

other magic = free time

it will always be "normal" attack > WS/magic > normal attack > WS/magic if u have not missed a stun. he will only "SEEM" to be WSing back to back if his normal attacks is para'ed but the paraed turn still counts as a "normal" attack

dont look at animation... if u stun its "normal attacks" then the next person is not going to stun the next WS cos he prolly didnt have time to react(totally did not expect you to fail and to use alacrity and then stun) cos tojil is going to WS right after u mis-stun a "normal" attack and its dominos from there

due to battle spam and/or lag, it's difficult for a human player to tell if Tojil is readying a TP move or not. Almost seems like a bot is mandatory if you want a chance at Tojil win.

wtf is this
this has got to be the 2013 "I justify to stun botting cos its the only way to win" award. too bad twitch deleted my unsaved streams overtime cos i had a few videos i could show how to stun w/o using a bot -_-

[Slycer]

Is the threshold 50% of remaining HP or 50% of maximum HP?

[Helel]

I'd recommend battlemod if you're stunning w/o bot. Pretty much impossible to screw up if you set filters right.

Also, if you really don't want to use stun, I'm sure RNG strategy would be extremely easy now (if you just want clear).

[urat]

Didnt SE just implement that thing to make everyone naked and reduce lag? That could probably help a fair bit for lag and stunning.

[backstab]

could anyone be so kind and help out with telling what TP moves need to stunned on a 5nm+bee run please. mostly wanna know what TP moves are to fast to be stunned.

[Helel]

We use 1 SCH to stun everything so we have to be somewhat picky what we stun, but it works fine.

Chapuli: Orthopterror; he starts to spam this after meditation
Butterfly: Smouldering swarm
Scorpion: Nothing really. Use chainspell stun after 50% and kill it
Mastop: Can stun his spells. Nothing else is remotely threatening if you enfeeble him correctly
Wamoura: Erosion dust, Benumbing blaze, Fire break.
Bee: Every TP move. Don't bother with his spells other than dispelga or breakga.

With 2 SCH, people will stun everything on wamoura, but it really doesn't matter. You don't need languor on bee, at least if you're using RNG, as it dies in ~3m, probably less now after update.

[Malithar]

Didnt SE just implement that thing to make everyone naked and reduce lag? That could probably help a fair bit for lag and stunning.

PS2 only. Its like they're saying "we know everyone on PC uses Windower and addons, so whatever~"

[Yeager]

not sure if you know.. but you have "Filters".... not hard to know when Tojil is readying a move... and for lag, depending on you settings can low them a bit, and depending on the plugins you have in windower, turning some off like TPparty one, helps to lower the lag... so dont try to justify that you have to use a bot to beat him.

This WAS with Filters on. Don't know what else to tell you.

[Mythe_Seraph]

I went with a PUG very late last night. They beaded out Eft, Peiste, Kurma. Got to Tojil, STILL wiped at 98%. He got a TP move off right away that wiped half the DD. Stuns were very late. It was a mess.

Tojil is just not possible without Stun, and due to battle spam and/or lag, it's difficult for a human player to tell if Tojil is readying a TP move or not. Almost seems like a bot is mandatory if you want a chance at Tojil win.

Lol. Pick up group wipes. Concludes that it is definitely not possible.