Delve

[Kidnoftle]

I'm disagreeing with you saying cors arn't going to be dmg sources because you think they're swapping frequently. Like I said, you really only rotate cors on t6s and even then its only twice. You can at least be guaranteed appropriate songs from the start, but I agree with your statement that once a rotation starts it will be hard, if not impossible, to maintain maxed buffs on cor.

edit: if you're shooting for tp you're doing it wrong. @ buffy

[Arthars]

not sure if i should say "go DD cor" and encourage more people being gimp on PT support (some people can do both DD and support but u know what i mean when i meant gimps trying to be all gungho because "BG SAID ITS LEGIT" and they themselves sucked generally)

or

just fucking stick to your support role cos it doesnt matter if a cor is DDing. you will still win anyway and im sure the cor will prolly just speed the kill up by 30s tops or even have negative effects cos ur busying paralyna/hasting urself than your designated DD

the above are meant for gimps only but i guess no one will actually know if they are gimp themselves

[Helel]

Alright, so this has happened to us 3 times now. The butterfly has gained -DT at 74%, like it usually does at 49 and 24. Every time it happens, it's always when I go all-out on RNG. I put seigan+te up and just stand in melee range, spamming WS whenever possible with donderbuss. The other RNG do the same.

Every time I hold back, try to be more careful with hate, he does not gain -DT at 74. My hypothesis is if you do too much ranged/piercing damage (we use DRG so not sure if it's piercing/ranged) at the start, or possibly just damage him too quickly? he gains -DT at 74. I wonder if this might be used to prevent his -DT altogether, not that it even matters really... Still, I found it odd as I've never experienced -DT at 74 before.

To be clear, he gained -DT at 74 49 and 24 when rangers went all-out.

Only at 49 and 24 when they held back.

-------------------------------------------

I agree CORs are a good damage source, especially in ceizak. If we even bother rotating, the BRDs sing after the CORs have already put up the first two rolls (and are in the 2nd pt), so they receive all SV songs. We don't bother rotating for the lower-NMs.

[Rhealana]

Kind of late considering someone 9-boxed already, but <30 min 5NM+Tojil with 10 people:

WHM BRD MNK MNK DRK DRG
COR SCH BRD GEO

Rest of alliance was filled with mules who mostly just idled for the additional plasm. Could easily cut this down to 1 BRD to do Marches for the SCH.

SCH can solo stun Tojil easily now with Nahtirah Hat update.

[Cairthenn]

The Nahtirah hat isn't the reason they can solo stun Tojil. They could do it before.

[Ophannus]

How do people solo stun Tojil, do they selectively stun only certain TP moves? When the second Sch in my group is applying Embrava and I solo stun, I'm just about out of strats by the time they're ready to stun again. Even with good gear and marches/haste/storm, Stun is still a 9-10s recast and Tojil can definitely TP every 4-6 seconds. I guess if you're selectively stunning only certain moves, you can just stun Batholothic Shell/Incineratin Lahar/Blistering Roar but even still I still feel uneasy when I have no strats up. I always buffer my next stun by readying a alacrity before it because you never know when you need to stun a move then stun another move like 5 seconds later. Waiting 9 seconds between stuns if he does back to back lahar can be troublesome.

[Yugl]

If you max out TR stuns, your best bet is to have the SCH with Perp/Penury/Celerity up and wait until Tojil is visible but before DDs attacks. Use Embrava > Dark Arts + Alacrity. Infinite charges and nearly capped magic haste. When TR wears, you have roughly eight stuns before recast is an issue.

[Helel]

We only have 1 SCH/BLM in my LS (my mule) who has solo-stunned all of the bosses for us (pre and post-update). Tojil cannot use a TP move every 4-6s. At the minimum, I'd say 8s. I know this for a fact because my recast is rarely under 6s, and I've never missed back-to-back TP moves. Tojil will always do TP move > attack round > TP move. He never uses TP moves back-to-back. There's always an attack round in between. It makes solo stunning very easy (true of the other mega bosses as well). The NQ NMs are actually harder to stun because they don't work like this.

I will say, there's something wrong with your gear if your recast is @9s. That's very high for "good" gear. You should aim for a little over 6s, which can then be reduced further with haste buffs. Perhaps you were referring to recast without alacrity? If that's the case then I apologize; however, it is possible to stun everything without alacrity. You should probably swap your feet to AF if alacrity is not up. Caster's roll is excellent as well.

We personally have never used embrava for our fights, mainly so I can conserve my strategms as much as possible. What I do is...

[make sure perp thunderstorm is up while BRDs singing] > [use alacrity when boss is pulled/get into position (don't get hit with sleepga!)] > [stun until I've used up all strategms] > [use tabula rasa immediately (this needs to be fast so it doesn't mess up your next stun)] > [continue stunning until boss is dead]. Originally, we used COR to reset strategms, but that's no longer necessary.

Warning:

Unlike TP moves, Tojil (and the other bosses) can cast a spell and use a TP move directly after. Normally, because of casting time, this is not a problem, but for spells with short cast time, such as slowga and sleepga, your recast may not be up in time for the subsequent TP move. Because of this, I no longer stun those particular spells. Dispelga, all AoE nukes, etc. are completely safe to stun if you wish.

[Yugl]

Have you tried Bokwus feet to see if you reach the same recast? I used an excel sheet and with the COR+Marches, that should appear as roughly 8s recast (The same as AF, but better mACC). That's not bad if you just stun TP moves, but they definitely need to maintain that the entire run. If they don't appear as the same recast, then that's probably an issue with the haste value.

[Toth]

not sure if i should say "go DD cor" and encourage more people being gimp on PT support (some people can do both DD and support but u know what i mean when i meant gimps trying to be all gungho because "BG SAID ITS LEGIT" and they themselves sucked generally)

or

just fucking stick to your support role cos it doesnt matter if a cor is DDing. you will still win anyway and im sure the cor will prolly just speed the kill up by 30s tops or even have negative effects cos ur busying paralyna/hasting urself than your designated DD

the above are meant for gimps only but i guess no one will actually know if they are gimp themselves

Even with rotations, the other COR and I still do about 6% total damage each on the Tojill fight. After steps and haste samba, a good old Res with some spare TP does some pretty nice damage.

[shepardG]

Yeah, myself on COR and another of our COR regulars usually do about 6-10% on tojil. We are a bit spoiled though, 2x 4-song/mythi /relic bards. We don't really rotate. But maximizing your output as COR/DNC gets even more important in pugs and low manning since standing around hasting can be done by another job faster and quicker.

Hell, for most things I get better numbers off of exenterator, and only use requeefsquat on physical resistant mobs (also let's monks light skill chain a ton)

[Classikmage]

Alright, so this has happened to us 3 times now. The butterfly has gained -DT at 74%, like it usually does at 49 and 24. Every time it happens, it's always when I go all-out on RNG. I put seigan+te up and just stand in melee range, spamming WS whenever possible with donderbuss. The other RNG do the same.

Every time I hold back, try to be more careful with hate, he does not gain -DT at 74. My hypothesis is if you do too much ranged/piercing damage (we use DRG so not sure if it's piercing/ranged) at the start, or possibly just damage him too quickly? he gains -DT at 74. I wonder if this might be used to prevent his -DT altogether, not that it even matters really... Still, I found it odd as I've never experienced -DT at 74 before.

To be clear, he gained -DT at 74 49 and 24 when rangers went all-out.

Only at 49 and 24 when they held back.

-------------------------------------------

I agree CORs are a good damage source, especially in ceizak. If we even bother rotating, the BRDs sing after the CORs have already put up the first two rolls (and are in the 2nd pt), so they receive all SV songs. We don't bother rotating for the lower-NMs.

We never bring RNG's anymore, and I haven't seen more than 2 DT's on twitherym in awhile, just 49% and 24%. We just SC and move on. Maybe each DT is allocated to a specific damage type? ie: slashing, blunt, piercing?

[Bored]

Bee-

well we tried 3rngs with beads didnt work for us. tried a hybrid set of mura sams rngs mnks didnt work either. so we just tried what we are good at 5mnks 1blu.
we pulled bring no pld just kill adds while buffing at the NMs. Blu terrors most Nms at 50% and we zerg finish.
t2 1:57 ws at 15%.
t1 2:12
t3 2:36 Blu terrored from 50-1% EB wiped 8ppl.
t4 4:42 Blu terrored at 75% full debuffs on. lasted until 25%.
Got lost on the way to t5 and geo dc.
t5 4:01
B we waited for a good pull had 1 add. HF formless. Wore off at 30% Cor rest. Repopped formlessand killed 6min. 7min left in zone.

[Dotsudoku]

This probably won't be terribly helpful, but I can assure you there's something tremendously wrong with the people behind the jobs if a combination of Mura SAMs, RNGs, and MNKs could not take down Muyingwa with beads post-update

You really need to go around figuring out which of your DD and/or support are majorly fucking up, because you have all the makings of a really smooth fight. I recommend parsing your DD and monitoring song/roll/luopon upkeep

[Bored]

its basically jobs we arent used to playing. we got muras when SoA came out but never played sam. Our rngs never were used ever. I think its more important to play the jobs you are comfortable with and tweak a thing or two and run your own setups. Made the difference for us.

[Dotsudoku]

A win's a win, but I still recommend identifying the disconnect. It takes a special kind of person to be uncomfortable with switching up their button masher in a game where all DD jobs are so horrifically homogeneous. That kind of special usually shows up in parses

[Shenrien]

Chapuli you can weapon skill whenever it's casting a long cast time spell, like Aeroga, Aero4/5 and so on. I wouldn't risk trying to WS on something like Silencga or Graviga, altho when I did a chapuli outside for a friends clear I just spammed ws's from like 30% and below and didn't have accuracy issues on SAM. The new adjustments to all the delve weapons (using Tsurumaru in my case) help out a lot with overcoming his stupid evasion bonus.

[cdgreg]

its basically jobs we arent used to playing. we got muras when SoA came out but never played sam. Our rngs never were used ever. I think its more important to play the jobs you are comfortable with and tweak a thing or two and run your own setups. Made the difference for us.

I'm assuming the most recent update that buffed the hell out of gear and turned easy mode on is what made the true difference. Unless of course this kill was pre-buff. I agree with dotsu that you need to figure out who is the weakest link where and improve that link. When the next tier of content comes out and it requires specific jobs and skill sets you will not have them unless you address this point.

[NynJa]

its basically jobs we arent used to playing. we got muras when SoA came out but never played sam. Our rngs never were used ever. I think its more important to play the jobs you are comfortable with and tweak a thing or two and run your own setups. Made the difference for us.

So if I'm understanding this correctly: you took people on jobs they never played (not like rng or sam are hard to play though), and therefor probably dont even have geared up (this is more of a problem), then wondered why it failed?

[Viar]

There's nothing inherently wrong with COR, it just isn't usually practical to optimize its damage output. You're almost always going to be missing half of the available songs(which means you have roughly a 50% chance of not having marches), and a fair portion of the time you'll have an Evoker's Roll on you. Sure, you can shoot, but a predominantly ranged approach is going to be horrible for overall DPS.

At the end of the day I'd rather have our CORs /RDM or /WHM to lend a hand to support, or /DNC for steps and Samba. Neither bodes well for their offensive contributions.

What's the point to do COR rotate anyways? All NMs dies fairly fast without 4 rolls and rolls after Chaos DA don't add a whole lot of dmg to DDs. May as well just stay in ally, get marches and DD if extra support not needed.....I mean, I got bee+5NM clear with low output setup like THF RUN x2 MNK x2 DRG and no COR rotate..... No point to using 4 rolls IMO.