Delve

[Dotsudoku]

Why swap BRDs? Why bring 6 DD instead of 3?

If you'd like to demonstrate mathematically that keeping the CORs stationary ends in a greater yield than having them swap around, be my guest. The added simplicity would be fantastic. "lol why bother when it dies so fast?" is not a counterargument

[Bored]

Yea will do some recording of runs see whats going wrong on different setups. ty for the info.
The blu was a nice addition for all out mnk pt.

[Michelob]

Why swap BRDs? Why bring 6 DD instead of 3?

If you'd like to demonstrate mathematically that keeping the CORs stationary ends in a greater yield than having them swap around, be my guest. The added simplicity would be fantastic. "lol why bother when it dies so fast?" is not a counterargument

If you're going to bring two CORs then by all means go ahead and swap but you can really get by just fine since the update with only one COR (and only one BRD for that matter) buffing both parties.

[Helel]

For the boss, it takes an extra 1:30ish to put 4 rolls up. The bee in particular dies in 2-3m. I don't see 4 rolls reducing fight time to less than 1m, so I don't bother swapping them for us. We do multiple runs per night so I'm looking to be as time efficient as possible. We'll probably still swap for daku and tojil, but maybe not tojil. He seems to be about a 3m fight now as well, though I haven't done him with my LS post-update yet.

To explain further, we just run to boss, put songs up, and kill.

edit:

Also, I don't think 95% of CORs know how to swap parties properly. When I do it with other groups, rolls are often dropping and it becomes less efficient than keeping chaos + [whatever else] up full-time. I know this shouldn't be the case, but it's certainly easier if you're taking PUG CORs or people who don't play the job very often, to have them just keep 2 rolls up.

[Kidnoftle]

While I'm inclined to agree with all of that I will point out that in some groups it does provide a decent bump in overall pt dmg (but I guess at this point in ffxi that only includes pugs).

[Helel]

Have you tried Bokwus feet to see if you reach the same recast? I used an excel sheet and with the COR+Marches, that should appear as roughly 8s recast (The same as AF, but better mACC). That's not bad if you just stun TP moves, but they definitely need to maintain that the entire run. If they don't appear as the same recast, then that's probably an issue with the haste value.

Haven't tried them, but thanks for the suggestion.

[dasva]

While I'm inclined to agree with all of that I will point out that in some groups it does provide a decent bump in overall pt dmg (but I guess at this point in ffxi that only includes pugs).

Or shit servers. I've been in quite a few lss over here that had brds that couldn't rotate forget cors. Only been in one that actually could probably rotate both cors and brds and even then it's not like they never lost rolls though I'm sure the jps are doing just fine.

[Rhealana]

I will say, there's something wrong with your gear if your recast is @9s. That's very high for "good" gear. You should aim for a little over 6s, which can then be reduced further with haste buffs. Perhaps you were referring to recast without alacrity? If that's the case then I apologize; however, it is possible to stun everything without alacrity. You should probably swap your feet to AF if alacrity is not up. Caster's roll is excellent as well.

SCH/BLM recast should be in the 8-9s range without Alacrity (assuming Marchx2+Haste for magic haste cap.)

I never have to use Alacrity on megaboss; I end up using it on things like Tute and Kurma (under 50%) for stuff like Calcifying and Tremor.

[Tymon]

I saw some people in here talking about using 2 DD of each damage type on the bee, specifically MNK MNK SAM SAM DRG DRG

I'm thinking about trying a max-geared THF instead of the second DRG. Think this would be competitive? Not as in being a top parser, but as in not getting completely embarassed. Would provide TH for possible +2s and such as well

[Viar]

Why swap BRDs? Why bring 6 DD instead of 3?

If you'd like to demonstrate mathematically that keeping the CORs stationary ends in a greater yield than having them swap around, be my guest. The added simplicity would be fantastic. "lol why bother when it dies so fast?" is not a counterargument

1. BRD buffs faster.

2. CORs can DD, has access to 2 pretty good delve boss run WS, namely Requiescat and Last stand. Now that everyone has capped delve boss gears, and COR shares same gear set with many other jobs, there are no reason COR can't DD properly anymore.

3. Doing very quick spreadsheet, and result may vary depending on job, buff, target, numbers. But I got about 40ish DPS increase from Chaos DA to Chaos DA rogue SAM, lower DPS increase with chaos DA rogue tactician.

I got around 70 DPS increase from Marchx2 Minuet(1 90 empy BRD) to march x2 minuet x4(2 90 empy BRD) without using SV, even more increase if BRD SV.


BRD swapping just has higher efficiency compare with COR swapping.

[Fwahm]

My DRK set isn't exactly super optimal, but if I add a 2nd COR on my spreadsheet, my DPS on Tojil (40% defense down, and with 6 SV songs) goes from ~835 to ~960 with just Samurai roll and Rogue's roll.

Either the benefit goes way down with optimal gear, or it varies a hell of a lot with different jobs.

[Viar]

My DRK set isn't exactly super optimal, but if I add a 2nd COR on my spreadsheet, my DPS on Tojil (40% defense down, and with 6 SV songs) goes from ~835 to ~960 with just Samurai roll and Rogue's roll.

Either the benefit goes way down with optimal gear, or it varies a hell of a lot with different jobs.

Samurai's roll has greater benefit on 2h DDs I think, if the number is good. Default Samurai roll on spreadsheet has pretty high number that you don't pop every time, if you're using SAM roll there's always a chance that it'd do nothing to 2h DDs if you have bad numbers. Have you try 3 songs on DRK v.s 6?

[Fwahm]

I lose about 200 DPS from switching from 6 BRD songs to 3 (Assuming I'm getting Marches instead of Minuets + Embrava, and during Soul Voice), compared to the ~120 from losing the 2nd COR.

BRD is a bigger benefit, but if your group isn't very proficient (like 95% of my server), the added DPS from swapping the 2nd COR probably slashes off over a minute from the fight (assuming lesser benefits to the MNKs), which is big when you can't count on your SCHs to stun every Lahar.

[Motenten]

I will say, there's something wrong with your gear if your recast is @9s. That's very high for "good" gear. You should aim for a little over 6s, which can then be reduced further with haste buffs. Perhaps you were referring to recast without alacrity? If that's the case then I apologize; however, it is possible to stun everything without alacrity. You should probably swap your feet to AF if alacrity is not up. Caster's roll is excellent as well.

Please explain how you arrived at this conclusion.

From what I can figure, assuming Alacrity with weather giving you -60%, to get a 6 second recast you'd need at least a 60% recast reduction from fast cast and haste. Given a probable max of ~30% fast cast in gear (less than that, really, if weight is given towards haste), thus 15% recast reduction, plus 14% recast reduction on the staff, you'd also need 44% total haste. Even with capped gear haste and the Haste spell, you aren't reaching that without additional haste/fast cast buffs.

To reach a 9 second recast, you'd need 45% in fast cast/haste. That's achievable at staff + 22% fast cast (total 25% recast reduction) and 27%-34% haste. Staff + 20% fast cast gear + 20% haste + Haste spell basically hits the bottom end of the 9 second recast range.

Best overall gear combo I can think of would be 25% haste and 26% fast cast, plus staff. That gives a 7.97 second recast when including Haste and using Alacrity.

Note: as soon as you add in Marches, you aren't doing it "without additional haste buffs".

[grevenilvec75]

argute loafers +2 are -65%. Dunno if that messes with your numbers.

[Yugl]

Used spreadsheet that estimates haste values as 1024*(1-(WrittenHaste/100)) and uses Proth's Recast*60 method.

ApaII
Naritah/Orunmila
Hedera/Bokwus
Swith/Witful/Bokwus/Argute+2

Haste: 5 + 5 + 3 + 3 + 4 = 20
FC: 10 + 5 + 3 + 3 + 5 = 26

Add haste spell:
Haste = 20 + 15 = 35

FC recast:
26/2 = 13

FC with ApaII
13 + 14 = 27

Haste: 35
FC: 27
Grimoire: 65

Recast: 7s (This is slightly above 6s as he mentioned)

[Motenten]

argute loafers +2 are -65%. Dunno if that messes with your numbers.

Eh, sorta yeah. I think I managed to use both haste feet and Argute feet at the same time, and used wrong Argute feet numbers. Lemme try again.

FC:
ammo (2%)
Loq (2%)
Prolix (2%)
Swith +1 (4%)
Argute +2 feet (5%)
Orunmila (5%)
Nahtirah (10%)

Haste:
grip (1%)
Morta body (5%)
Nahtirah (5%)
Bokwus hands (3%)
Bokwus legs (4%)
waist (6%)

24% haste, 30% FC, 14% affinity, Haste

base [2700]
29% FC recast [1917]
393/1024 haste [1181]
65% Alacrity [413]
== 6.88 seconds


So yes, I was mistaken in my calculations. Best gear set could hit 6 seconds without Marches.

More modest gear (eg: Goliard body, Goading Belt, no Orunmila) should still be hitting 7 seconds, then. I do wonder how I'm still seeing 8-9 second recasts on mine, though, when I have most that gear. Will have to do a more careful check on my stuff.

[Dotsudoku]

BRD swapping just has higher efficiency compare with COR swapping.

This isn't what I asked. The argument was that these bosses were allegedly so simple that the swaps were unnecessary, which trickles down to BRD swaps and superfluous bodies just as readily as it does to COR swapping. Unless someone cares to demonstrate that there is in fact a net gain by keeping CORs stationary, the decision to do so it entirely arbitrary and should not be the basis of any type of argument

[Raelia]

Or shit servers. I've been in quite a few lss over here that had brds that couldn't rotate forget cors. Only been in one that actually could probably rotate both cors and brds and even then it's not like they never lost rolls though I'm sure the jps are doing just fine.

I remember when there was this awesome LS on Bahamut that did everything... What were they called again? Really though, what happened back there? Was I not the only one to jump out during the lockdown or what?

Siren is a second example of pants-on-head retarded english players. JP heavy is one thing, 'first NA+EU Bee clear on the server was.. last week?' is another.

[Ophannus]

So yes, I was mistaken in my calculations. Best gear set could hit 6 seconds without Marches.

More modest gear (eg: Goliard body, Goading Belt, no Orunmila) should still be hitting 7 seconds, then. I do wonder how I'm still seeing 8-9 second recasts on mine, though, when I have most that gear.

9 is the max recast you can get on Stun without Alacrity.

The Recast cap is 80%.
80% of 45 is 36. So 80% recast is 9 seconds.

Alacrity with Storm and Argute+2 should bring it down to 3 seconds.