Delve

[Viar]

I'm in need of some advice for the Ceizak Battlegrounds fracture.

I have been told that Rangers are very useful for runs there but how many would you say are needed? The linkshell has four well geared Rangers but only one of them has the Annihilator. As it stands we're using four Rangers in the fracture and we get the NM's down in good time, apart from the Scorpion which can really go die in a fire.

How many Ranger would you suggest are needed for the Ceizak fracture and what jobs do you suggest for the front line? I've heard people suggesting everything from Mura-Samurai to Blue Mage.

Ranger is not needed, in fact it's currently one of the unpopular DD in that zone, any piercing DD or none elemental DD works. I've seen Ceizak 6NM party use MNK THF DNC DRG BLU SAM for DD spot. All of them has it's own advantage and disadvantage and all able to clear the zone.

If you have issue winning, it's usually more about party organization, less about using right jobs, as long as it's above mentioned jobs. Scorp shouldn't have problem if your mages pay attention with dia. If you still have problem, bring a BLU and terror it, or have your RDM CS it. Terror/CS lock it after 50% can save some time.

[Dotsudoku]

If people don't feel like swapping jobs around between runs, that's one thing, but ranger blows every other job out of the water in Ceizak. Last Stand does 10-12k for the entirety of Mastop, and performs similarly on Muyingwa

[Helel]

Ranger is not needed, in fact it's currently one of the unpopular DD in that zone, any piercing DD or none elemental DD works. I've seen Ceizak 6NM party use MNK THF DNC DRG BLU SAM for DD spot. All of them has it's own advantage and disadvantage and all able to clear the zone.

If you have issue winning, it's usually more about party organization, less about using right jobs, as long as it's above mentioned jobs. Scorp shouldn't have problem if your mages pay attention with dia. If you still have problem, bring a BLU and terror it, or have your RDM CS it. Terror/CS lock it after 50% can save some time.

Unpopular? It's clearly the best DD choice for the zone. Whether or not you have competent players in your LS to play the job is another story. I suppose it's a good test of your DDs' skill level.

I should say that "any other piercing DD" does not work as well as RNG, not even half as well. DRG parses less than half of what a RNG can do on the boss, and presumably mastop as well.

At this point in time, you can basically bring whatever DD you want to any zone and win, so I'm not arguing that [insert strategy here] won't work. I'm only arguing that RNG strategy is far more efficient than any other strategy. It's also hilarious to watch the mega boss die so fast. Just for reference, we use 3 RNG + WHM and let the RNG go crazy with donderbusses. Boss is harmless.

For the melee party, you might as well use BLUx3, but we usually do MNK SAM DRG, or MNK MNK DRG.

[Cairthenn]

Wouldn't it be a test of how poorly your other players are performing if you actually require a ranger, rather than the other way around?

[NynJa]

Wouldn't it be a test of how poorly your other players are performing if you actually require a ranger, rather than the other way around?

Wouldnt such a statement imply that ranger is the strongest job?

[Cairthenn]

It's certainly the best job at damaging the boss. Outside of that, it's pretty terrible.

[Viar]

Unpopular? It's clearly the best DD choice for the zone. Whether or not you have competent players in your LS to play the job is another story. I suppose it's a good test of your DDs' skill level.

I should say that "any other piercing DD" does not work as well as RNG, not even half as well. DRG parses less than half of what a RNG can do on the boss, and presumably mastop as well.

Ranger is not needed, in fact it's currently one of the unpopular DD in that zone, any piercing DD or none elemental DD works. I've seen Ceizak 6NM party use MNK THF DNC DRG BLU SAM for DD spot. All of them has it's own advantage and disadvantage and all able to clear the zone.

If you have issue winning, it's usually more about party organization, less about using right jobs, as long as it's above mentioned jobs. Scorp shouldn't have problem if your mages pay attention with dia. If you still have problem, bring a BLU and terror it, or have your RDM CS it. Terror/CS lock it after 50% can save some time.

Read what I said. Your server may be different, but on my server what I said was fact. 95% of the groups(including PUG) don't recruit RNG for Ceizak. Whether it's because the time you level up or get a well geared RNG you could already clear 10x with other DDs, or it makes COR BRD's life harder to use different set of buffs, or lack of other utility like terror from BLU, or because everyone's too lazy to change job for different zone is irrelevant. It's far from required, and most groups don't need to use it.

I said nothing about who parse first on boss, but it's fact that most groups don't use it. Ceizak is easily clearable with above mentioned jobs with 18 average geared players in PUG, if you don't already have RNG in your group/LS, the time you level one up or /shout for one you could clear 10 times with a melee burn setup with better organization and practice on NMs. This zone is not all about having top DPS, for a group having problems on scorpion, using BLU for terror may ended up better for them.

[Detzu]

Some groups on Cerberus don't even go with RNG anymore because they consider it a waste of space.
Those groups have cleared many times with RNG setup.

[Tymon]

THF and DRG regularly win our Muyingwa parses, lol. Two of each damage type works just fine.

[Dotsudoku]

I don't think anyone's suggesting that you need RNG to win anything, but there's no comparison between RNG and any other job on Muyingwa or Mastop. My thrown-together RNG parses twice as much as any other piercing job on said mobs

[Viar]

This isn't what I asked. The argument was that these bosses were allegedly so simple that the swaps were unnecessary, which trickles down to BRD swaps and superfluous bodies just as readily as it does to COR swapping. Unless someone cares to demonstrate that there is in fact a net gain by keeping CORs stationary, the decision to do so it entirely arbitrary and should not be the basis of any type of argument

Very late reply, I know, but better late than never!

Assuming your pt setup is MNK MNK BLU COR BRD WHM, another pt has DRG for angon. The gear set I use for those jobs may or may not be optimal, since I don't play DD and sometimes it's a bit buff/debuff dependent. But it shouldn't be completely wrong. If the gear set is wrong feel free to correct it.

Spreadsheet only has Tojil as target, so I used tojil. 6 +5 songs, Marchx2 madrigal x2 Minuet x2. Madrigal may not be optimal buff for MNK though. 25% def down from angon, another 13% from GEO and eva down, dia2 light shot. 25% chaos roll, 16% DA roll, 15% rogues roll, 30 STP SAM roll(those are very good numbers that you don't always pop)

Every DD eats RCB, including COR.

Condition: Party 1 COR/DNC gets full buff and no party swap, party 2 COR/DNC has no BRD buff due to party swap, and only have Store TP and rogues roll up, engage half the time due to half the time rolling.

MNK gear: Same as AH guide.

TP:
http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/309865

WS:
http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/309858

With only chaos+fighter: 1166 DPS
With chaos+DA+SAM+Rogue: 1251 DPS

BLU TP:
Buramenk'ah/Halachuinc R15 path A/Honed
Thurandaut/asperity/heartseeker/dudgeon(higher than brutal/suppa it seems)
Thaumas/Iuitl/rajas/epona
Atheling/twilight/Iuitl/Mani R15 path A

WS:
Uk'uxkaj/gorget/Neptune x2(higher than moonshade or DA earring)
Iuitl/Iuitl/Epona/Aquasoul
Atheling/elemental belt/Nahtirah/Thurandaut

With Chaos+fighter:782 DPS
With 4 rolls: 837 DPS

COR/DNC

R15 path A sword main hand, dagger offhand. COR used all QD charge on light/dark shot so QD doesn't add any dmg, just TP/WS dmg.

TP:

Same as BLU, except Whirlpool+windbuffet instead of DW head+twilight. And Mani R15 path A legs.

Requiescat set:

Same as BLU, but Whirlpool head+ Mani R15 path A instead, maybe due to lack of attack from /WAR they ended up better.

DPS with chaos/fighter:622.581

DPS with no chaos/fighter but SAM+rogues instead, use sushi(you have to sushi without BRD song) but not RCB, no BRD songs:

79.460

The pt with COR not swapping= 3736 total
Pt with COR swapping = 3418 total

There are other variables, such as NM weakness against certain type of dmg, COR has to waste 35 TP to keep samba up, 2h DD gets bigger boost from SAM roll IF you get a good number, and not every party use madrigal on boss.

I also have to point out, doing 4 DD rolls instead of 2 means 2 of your rolls would be gimp. If you only do 2, you almost always have snake eye/fold available to pop a good number for first 2 rolls. Some say "never bust" in delve is misconception. You can* bust as long as your party doesn't wait for rolls and waste time. If you bust right before double-up wear, you can reroll right away and suffer nearly no dmg lose. If you bust when BRD doing t/n, you don't really waste time either. Double up on 6 smartly increase roll potency, with 4 DD roll rotation it's much harder to pull off that you'd better stay on 6 and gimp on rolls.

Use snake eye on No.6(if your mages don't need better evoker) chaos or DA increase DA by 1% or 3% attack. If you do 4 rolls swapping party, you can't save snake eye on Chaos/fighter roll, that means gimp Chaos/fighter roll because your SAM/Rogue roll may need it. And you may or may not pop lucky samurai roll to make it worthwhile for 2h DDs.

And adding 200 more DPS for 2h DD doesn't beat COR getting full DD buff it seems.

Unless there's something I'm doing wrong with spreadsheet, I see not swapping> swapping.

Edit: COR needs pretty heavy accuracy swap plus double path B augment weapons + sushi if BRD isn't using accuracy songs. That kinda close the gap between both party a bit.

[FNH]

What were the agreed upon level and evasion for the delve bosses?

[Revati]

Just killed kurma with 3 ppl! 1 rdm/sch doing klimaform and windstorm, 2 blm/rdm all spamming aero 1 except during manafont.

[dasva]

Just killed kurma with 3 ppl! 1 rdm/sch doing klimaform and windstorm, 2 blm/rdm all spamming aero 1 except during manafont.

How long it take?

[Taruina]

Probably around 22 minutes i'd guess? I mean, the magic gear we have now is pretty nice.

[Revati]

I didn't time it but i would guess 15. Tried duoing it and timed out at 20%

[Asymptotic]

stuff

I like to refer to making up an imaginary situation, hand-waving away most of the parameters and coming up with a non-concusion "Proof by tl;dr". I see it a lot when tutoring students in higher level math courses and it's generally a sign of having a poor understanding of the system.

Anyway, addressing your argument:

Alternatively you can do secondary rolls on the first party you roll on, and then swap have the full benefit of Chaos + Fighters and melee until you need to rotate with the second COR again. You can do the secondary rolls (Rogue + Sam, or whatever you feel like doing) right before the BRDs begin their rotation and the primary rolls during the BRD rotation so that you're not missing songs. Secondary rolls should wear before NT songs so you can swap before that and begin rolling again if you really feel like you need to, but I don't think any of the bosses actually live long enough to worry about it unless you're low-manning.

Regardless, it's not necessary for COR to melee and if missing COR damage is what's keeping you from clearing delve, there are many, many, many other issues you need to be addressing. The difference is minuscule and whichever side of the court the ball is landing in, we're talking about 26 minute clears versus 25:15 clears because SE made Delve mostly trivial to any group with a few functioning brains and there's nothing better to discuss.

RIP Delve thread.

[Taim Meich]

Why not Thunder? Wasn't Thunder supposed to increase its magic taken damage, or it was magic damage in general?

[Asymptotic]

I think thunder was the only thing that people could land.

[Taim Meich]

Guessed so, and Aero is more MP efficient, so...

I'd like to try that strategy, but I'll instead wait in foreveralone mode until people on my LS return from FFXIV instead >_<