Delve

[Revati]

Bgwiki said aero and thunder so aero. Aero costs less so thats what we used. Worked out well with klinaform windstorm for gravity anyways.

[dasva]

While thunder does I think cost like double of aero now if you worrying about efficiency casting a 34 mp spell as blm/rdms with a rdm in pt I don't know what to say lol

[Taim Meich]

Eh, start spamming those and look at your MP. There's going to be MP problems, given enough time, like before, only that now you'll reach them after a while, after dealing good damage, not after 4-5 big, expensive nukes.

[Khary]

So I'm bored at work and had a random thought and wanted to see what others thought. What if you were to take 3 dancers into delve instead of 3 schs for stun :O Dancer gets B+ Dagger and SCH gets B+ Dark magic, so there shouldn't be any difference with accuracy. Ok, discuss....

[Tatham]

Nope, doubt it'd work.
One of the DD can do /DNC to put steps/samba up.

[Slycer]

Eh, start spamming those and look at your MP. There's going to be MP problems, given enough time, like before, only that now you'll reach them after a while, after dealing good damage, not after 4-5 big, expensive nukes.

For casting Thunder (I), if you're running out of MP:

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Seidr_Cotehardie

Sure you'll lose some damage, but between Conserve MP and the effect of that body, I'm pretty sure your spells will have no net cost. Someone else mentioned Cotehardie earlier in the thread, and it definitely has other uses as well now with the elemental magic adjustments, but this is one obvious one that comes to mind.

And yes, you can easily run out of MP spamming Thunder (I) on stuff, I've had it happen numerous times on Kurma. It doesn't even take that long, considering how fast you can cast/recast the spell.

[dasva]

So I'm bored at work and had a random thought and wanted to see what others thought. What if you were to take 3 dancers into delve instead of 3 schs for stun :O Dancer gets B+ Dagger and SCH gets B+ Dark magic, so there shouldn't be any difference with accuracy. Ok, discuss....

1. Not all sources of stun (or any debuff really) have the same base macc. So can't really just say they are the same acc. I mean blu gets like 10 sources of stun but there is a clear difference in alot of their accs. And only 2 are on par with stun spell. Not sure how much testing was done on harder stuff to tell but I know nms that stun works fine on often resist flourish though that might be part of the next problems.
2. Not completely sure but don't think it was proven that skill was what effected the stun landing. I know lowering the lvl certainly lowered the stun rate. And even if it did right now skill on weapons is only adding to acc part.
3. Gearing. I'm not sure we ever really figured out what effected the hit rate of the stun effect once VF landed. Idk would have to ask Byrthnoth about that. But would make gearing for it hard. And the test I remember him doing showed a decent lvl diff like 16 or so basically flooring the stun rate. So schs can make stuff up easy. I mean magian staff is basically 12-15 lvls of macc right there plus other gearing and still run into wall. But if we don't know for sure what it is for VF would be hard to make those lvls up. Though antedoctally I do remember some dnc enthusiast saying the did get a much better land rate when soloing stuff in abyssea with macc atmas... which makes sense. But just how much macc gear does dnc get lol?
4. Because of stuns multiple resist state with decent macc you can basically get it to work 100% of the time at capped macc if the effect actually connects. With the spell aside from blink it's going to connect but with VF you will flat out miss 5% of the time.

[Byrthnoth]

Yeah, I basically wouldn't expect Violent Flourish to land on high tier NMs even with all the MAcc gear DNC can wear. Even if it did land, it is only ~95% reliable as Dasva says.

One DNC as a DD/Buffer/Debuffer is potentially a good idea. More than that or relying on them to stun is a bad idea.

[dasva]

Did you ever find out why lvl was effecting stun rate? Like was it pure lvl or skill or stats? Assuming it's skill (and maybe even if it isn't) the mainhand skill/macc update might make the the stun rate decent I think? Though still gotta actually hit so hard to rely on

[Byrthnoth]

I didn't figure it out, no. I guess I could go back to that some time, but it would detract from my Monstrosity leveling time!

[dasva]

I didn't figure it out, no. I guess I could go back to that some time, but it would detract from my Monstrosity leveling time!

Lol I hear you. I have a few things on backburner myself for monstrosity

[Khary]

Well shoot, I didn't realize Violent flourish had acc and magic acc checks >< .

[Helel]

Started to treat mastop like craklaw or krab or matama. We have RNG (x3) hold off on damage until it's @90%, then they go crazy. Last stand does a good 15-20k at that point and takes him down really fast. It might be worth holding off on damage until 85 or 80ish. I'm not sure exactly how high his +DT goes.

[Loire]

Started to treat mastop like craklaw or krab or matama. We have RNG (x3) hold off on damage until it's @90%, then they go crazy. Last stand does a good 15-20k at that point and takes him down really fast. It might be worth holding off on damage until 85 or 80ish. I'm not sure exactly how high his +DT goes.

Do you normally have a drg in there hitting too then or have them off it as well?

[Systematicchaos]

Do you normally have a drg in there hitting too then or have them off it as well?

I am also curious about this.

[Ophannus]

I dont think they added the m.acc from main hand skill to Violent Flourish yet similar to how they didn't add m.acc from main hand skill to Blue Magic. My Sudden Lunges land like 20-30% of the time on Tulfaires/Colibri and Delta Thrust plague sometimes wears off in like 5-10sec, I've seen quite a few resists on Actinic Bursts too. I'd wager the same goes for Violent/Desperate Flourish and additional effects on ammo for Marksmanship/Archery.

[dasva]

Yeah they only started talking about the macc thing after the last update. Hopefully it will be for next update

[Fwahm]

They mentioned it before last update, but yeah, it's not implemented yet.

[Alvinho]

Just out of curiosity (since I always get asked to go WHM to these things), what food are BLUs using? For Ceizak and Foret NMs/Bosses? Pizza in Foret, or buns (or sushi)? Sushi in Ceizak? Thanks.

[pancakesandsex]

For casting Thunder (I), if you're running out of MP:

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Seidr_Cotehardie

Sure you'll lose some damage, but between Conserve MP and the effect of that body, I'm pretty sure your spells will have no net cost. Someone else mentioned Cotehardie earlier in the thread, and it definitely has other uses as well now with the elemental magic adjustments, but this is one obvious one that comes to mind.

And yes, you can easily run out of MP spamming Thunder (I) on stuff, I've had it happen numerous times on Kurma. It doesn't even take that long, considering how fast you can cast/recast the spell.

Only spell I've managed to make completely free with that body is stone 1, but I use it for all T1-3 nukes and it certainly helps a lot.