Delve

[Uzor]

If you can get 17 people to wait patiently at the zone line rather than run around like headless chickens getting themselves killed then the other zones work, ceizak is just far less painful to gather for and the other zones don't have any major boons to warrant the extra hassle.

People actually have problems with this? None of the pickup grops I've went with had this problem. I tell them to just bivouac to Morimar and wait there.

If someone doesn't listen, I'd kick them. Problem solved. I've had a problem all of once, that was inside the fracture where someone went afk at start and subsequently somehow got lost, but that was easily fixable.

As LNG a you give clear guidelines people usually do listen, it's when you assume they know what to do that problems arises

The NM's are a whole different story though, not sure what part of "Don't use enfeebled after 20 exuviations" or "Don't attack Matamata with magic yet" is hard to understand, because there will always be that one guy. That's when you kick them.

Melee jobs re dime a dozen, it's not like it's hard to find a new one. Support jobs can be a different story, but I've found it's usually melee jobs that mess up big time. I don't mind mistakes, it does happen, it's when it happens over and over or someone just don't listen at all. If you mess up, own up and admit it instead of shifting blame or getting mad when you point it out.

[Arthars]

gotta keep it short...

the 7th and 8th WS didnt worked for matamata, +people saying 6-7th reset as well, so i guess wiki prolly needs update

[chichicha]

gotta keep it short...

the 7th and 8th WS didnt worked for matamata, +people saying 6-7th reset as well, so i guess wiki prolly needs update

Damage definitely between 7th and 8th TP move. Each interval is around 50s.
We used a BLU to Burst Affinity + Absolute Terror to extend the time.

[Jem]

Probably with enough people, but waiting the extra 2 minutes is probably safer if you've got less people/less well geared people on hand.

Problem with waiting the extra 2 mins is that a 7 min kill is not good enough if you're killing inside and shooting for Tojil. Eft is a 3 min kill and Raptor is 3-5 mins depending on how many melees he pot shots.

What might work is having the PLD hold Matamata whilst you kill the Eft which would help reduce that time.

[Obsidian]

Is there a trick/general strategy for the Eft or is it just "beat the hell out of it"?

[Eanae]

Damage definitely between 7th and 8th TP move. Each interval is around 50s.
We used a BLU to Burst Affinity + Absolute Terror to extend the time.

Except its not. There's some other factor here we're missing and as long as people throw fingers in their ears and pretend people aren't saying 7th isn't working for them we aren't going to figure it out.

It may be as simple as magic and melee have a different number of TP moves to cap. It could be more complicated. If I'm not mistaken most people posting are using the mnk strategy?

[Jem]

Is there a trick/general strategy for the Eft or is it just "beat the hell out of it"?

We just buff up and beat the hell out of it. We've done it both with 2x DD parties and 1x DD party + 1x RNG party (1 COR + 1 BRD buffs for both parties). Both result in a 3-4 minute kill.

Putting up dummy buffs probably helps with dispels but isn't necessary. Half the time I forget to do it. Similarly rotating buffers between parties would probably help but we don't bother with it.

[pancakesandsex]

Except its not. There's some other factor here we're missing and as long as people throw fingers in their ears and pretend people aren't saying 7th isn't working for them we aren't going to figure it out.

It may be as simple as magic and melee have a different number of TP moves to cap. It could be more complicated. If I'm not mistaken most people posting are using the mnk strategy?

My group killed it 6 times in a row using the monk strat. The time to strike is after ws 7, but you must be doing melee only damage to it. I imagine that any melee damage would mess up the opposite strategy as well.

[Eanae]

My group killed it 6 times in a row using the monk strat. The time to strike is after ws 7, but you must be doing melee only damage to it. I imagine that any melee damage would mess up the opposite strategy as well.

We've only done it using the opposite strategy and ws 7 has never been the correct time. Our best guess at the moment is that its 5 or 6. So I may be right in that magic and melee have different ws required for caps.

[Gokulo]

My group killed it 6 times in a row using the monk strat. The time to strike is after ws 7, but you must be doing melee only damage to it. I imagine that any melee damage would mess up the opposite strategy as well.

I tried exactly that and it didn't work after 7th ws.

[Arthars]

gotta keep it short...

the 7th and 8th WS didnt worked for matamata, +people saying 6-7th reset as well, so i guess wiki prolly needs update

nvm me, i found out a conclusive thing for this dude.

Basically the 8th being the reset point, sounds valid still and thats the MNK strategy.

Reason:
1. Physical output is kinda reliable to the eyes, there is no resist so once u hit single digits, you are prolly before the 7th, and after the 7th, you should hit 0 totally, and thats when u formless zerg. If you dont kill it, it will reset. Simple enough to understand for everyone i suppose.
2. So wiki page is right on, this is the best reliable way to win. However you do not need to "wait for WS" to go off, you can basically just stick all your mnks on the NM after pop, melee style w/o even dia... (dont risk it), till you guys see 0 dmg in ur first 2-3 punches and just unleash formless 100 fist
you can even live w/o 100 fist, just need to have 2 march and embrava to guarantee cap haste.

Now for people (me) who did the other way round, where u use magic dmg > physical, you will most likely fail because:
1. Mag acc is so shitty on these thing that u will hit 0 even before the 7th and have a false assumption that he is "ready" for physical zerg, and end up doing shitty 1-5k punches
2. If you wanna do magic > physical way, you have to really count, and then buff, and then engage, and then use abi which u will most likely not have enough time to finish it off
3. everything fails if you fail to count

so yea, grab 3-4 mnks and you can win this easy -_- magic > physical way is just too troublesome

we changed to mnk way and try it out after we fail 2 times on magic > physical. there is a huge diff between zerging on before and after 7th WS, since we didnt wait for 0 damage, we zerg 1 WS before 7th WS when we doing single digits melee damage and i eyeball mnks doing formless 10k-ish non crits only, i assume after tehe 7th, we should be doing 20k-ish non crits but we had like 7 mnks so we didnt wanna risk it

mnk is braindead way. 3-4 mnks, even w/o deve weapons should own it after the 7th

[Shadida]

We did the Magic > Physical way 3 times last night, once outside and twice inside. First couple times went great, 100k weaponskills by our better DDs (and it was SO much fun busting 99999 Shohas!) The third time we had less of our strong DDs on since it was getting late, and I think we didn't count right so the first time we melee'd it, he wasn't totally weakened. The bad news is you have to reset and build magic resistance again, which takes extra time. The good news is that hate isn't bad to re-establish on the tank. I'm not an expert in enmity mechanics, but I was happy when the NM went back to the PLD after I was dropping 60-80k bombs.

As for the Peiste, we fought him inside and didn't really have a lot of support, but even with Hunter's + Mad + Sushi it was absolutely floored accuracy. However, there was a point at about 10-15 minutes into the fight when all of a sudden we started hitting normally and ripped into it for about 10-15% of its health. Then, just as suddenly, it was back to wiffga. Not sure what triggered the decreased evasion - when I get home I'll check logs to see if someone used Feint or a particular debuff or something.

[Jem]

As for the Peiste, we fought him inside and didn't really have a lot of support, but even with Hunter's + Mad + Sushi it was absolutely floored accuracy. However, there was a point at about 10-15 minutes into the fight when all of a sudden we started hitting normally and ripped into it for about 10-15% of its health. Then, just as suddenly, it was back to wiffga. Not sure what triggered the decreased evasion - when I get home I'll check logs to see if someone used Feint or a particular debuff or something.

You need to Blind it. When you blind it, it gets a huge evasion drop. Also locks out it's glowy eye attacks. Without blind you're basically at floored accuracy even with tons of acc buffs.

[Nishida]

Which are the recommended Tier 1~3 NMs to get KI in Ceizak and Foret?

[Carraway]

Which are the recommended Tier 1~3 NMs to get KI in Ceizak and Foret?

Jagil and Scorpion can both be melee-zerg'd down. Refer back through the thread for testimonials/strats.

[Byrthnoth]

Perhaps you must do all blunt, slashing, etc

[Kalli]

I Have read through most of the post and all i find on Nerrivik ( oboron) is zerg it. I have done this fight 8 times now with random parties and have yet to win. Some fights SV songs last until the mob is at 30 ish % others 60% and most if not all of the dd's had 95+ rem or delve weapons.When I ask ppl just say zerg is will full buffs and rotation of bards. We have been doing this yet the fight still takes 20 min( and depop at 20% or so) or 25 min inside and sill only 20% or so. I had a friend tell me you need to nuke it so its more squishy, is there any truth to this? And what am i missing? Some ppl say you can zerg this in 5 mins what are they doing? ( I know about the lanterns and they almost always broken in first few mins of the zerg)

[TacoTaru]

When we did it with magic nuking > killing with physical I would pop formless on the 6th WS and run in and start hitting it to help our mages know if it was ready. As soon as I saw formless hitting for 0, dump out and everyone runs in and DDs it.

[Taint]

Which are the recommended Tier 1~3 NMs to get KI in Ceizak and Foret?

The grasshopper is extremely easy and boring. Just bring a bunch of DDs, buff them and AFK until its dead. (don't WS it, just auto attack it)

The Jagil you just zerg. Melee should be /nin or /sam (seigan 3rd eye up)

[Slycer]

nvm me, i found out a conclusive thing for this dude.

Basically the 8th being the reset point, sounds valid still and thats the MNK strategy.

Reason:
1. Physical output is kinda reliable to the eyes, there is no resist so once u hit single digits, you are prolly before the 7th, and after the 7th, you should hit 0 totally, and thats when u formless zerg. If you dont kill it, it will reset. Simple enough to understand for everyone i suppose.
2. So wiki page is right on, this is the best reliable way to win. However you do not need to "wait for WS" to go off, you can basically just stick all your mnks on the NM after pop, melee style w/o even dia... (dont risk it), till you guys see 0 dmg in ur first 2-3 punches and just unleash formless 100 fist
you can even live w/o 100 fist, just need to have 2 march and embrava to guarantee cap haste.

Just to tag onto this, if you're not sure about the counting strategy, don't use it. Watching melee damage is reliable. On the cycle before the final cycle where it will take the most damage, melees should be dealing mostly 1s with occasional 0s. The final cycle should be all 0s. Once you see 0 0 0 0 0, you know it's time to go. As Arthars said above, the weakness and resistance changes happen as soon as the TP move is being readied, not after the TP move is completed, so you can go as soon as you see 0 0 0 0 0 once it's readying a TP move. Make sure you're ready to go right away, though, it sucks to get caught at like 10-20% HP and need to go through a whole second round of weakening it.

I should also mention that because of this strategy, you can incorporate a Matamata kill rather easily into a plasm farming run. We just had one PLD/healer holding raptor and eft, and a MNK/healer holding Matamata, and everyone else killing normals as usual. Once it was almost set to kill the Matamata, we called the other MNK over and they HF/FS'ed it to death, ezpz, then continued on as usual killing random crap. It took a run or two to get everyone on board, so make sure you're clear about what's going on if you plan to do this (if you're going with randoms, it may be best just to explain that only the MNKs and their healer really need to know what's going on with Mata and it should be business as usual for others).