Delve

[Jem]

Do field NMs actually chain or give bonus plasm increases like inside Fractures?

As great as the rewards are for Delve and as much as I think the system is mostly well thought out (not beads drop rate... etc.) one of the issues I have is that farming plasm is just... boring. As players gear gets better and the NM strategies become old and familiar I wonder if it may become more worthwhile to kill like the first 3 Tier1 NMs in Fracture and then kill any fodder mobs with leftover time. IIRC someone said killing the third NM granted 3k plasm, not sure how much the second granted, and first is 500. Given that a regular fodder only farming grind can get anywhere from 6~8k I'm not sure if focusing on NM's for points would ever be preferable. Which is too bad because the NMs are at least engaging, while the fodder grind is dull as hell.

The amount of extra Plasm you get for killing NM's is a straight multiplier. 1x for first kill, 2x for second kill, 3x for third kill, 4x for fourth kill and I assume 5x for fifth kill.

If you wanted to go down that route then Morimar will be your best bet.

Eft > Raptor > Matamata > Peiste is 6k points total and is doable in under 20 minutes with a really good set-up. Kurma would be doable too but not sure if it would be better to kill Kurma or farm NQ's at that point since Kurma is a timesink if you melee burn it.

Downside is you'd need a pretty competent set-up to do that. It's not something that PUG's are gonna be able to do for quite a long time.

[Carraway]

Or that you don't have access to two 4-song BRDs.

Point still stands; two 3-song BRDs, a COR, two SCHs, competent DDs, 2min53sec kill time on Nerrivik. I've also helped a friend by joining a shout for Nerrivik and the fight took 10~15 minutes and it was horrible because there was no real gameplan or attention paid to proper group compositions, buff rotations, stuns, etc.

[dasva]

The point of having 2 empyrean brds still stands too though lol

[Fake]

No it doesn't, 2 extra songs per party wouldn't add another 2mins onto a ~3min kill.

With a couple of schs or soul voice you are marginalising the benefit of 3-4 song brds over 2 song brds, as long as you have non retard DDs and all the buffs up quickly it won't matter.

[Carraway]

No it doesn't, 2 extra songs per party wouldn't add another 2mins onto a ~3min kill.

With a couple of schs you are marginalising the benefit of 3-4 song brds over 2 song brds, as long as you have non retard DDs and all the buffs up quickly it won't matter.

Yeah, that's the point I was trying to illustrate. One less song per BRD extends the fight by thirty seconds to a minute maybe, but probably not because I don't think we were getting the maximum benefit from the extra songs anyway. I don't find it hard to believe that it can be a painful fight because I've been in one of those painful fights, but -- and this is a point that's been retread several times already -- you really have to hold everyone's hand if you're going to lead a group. You have to leave as little as possible to chance because most people, left to their own devices, revert to a guinea-pig-like state of complacency.

[dasva]

If you reread the point does stand since you were claiming if it lives past 5 min your DD are incompetent. If it took suddox 4.5 with 8 songs and you say the loss of a song is .5-1 min then the loss of 2 would definitely put your example past 5 min making rhiannons counter of suddoxes incompetent dds statement of less songs 150% correct by your own statements unless you assume suddox was using incompetent dds

[Carraway]

If you reread the point does stand since you were claiming if it lives past 5 min your DD are incompetent. If it took suddox 4.5 with 8 songs and you say the loss of a song is .5-1 min then the loss of 2 would definitely put your example past 5 min making rhiannons counter of suddoxes incompetent dds statement of less songs 150% correct by your own statements unless you assume suddox was using incompetent dds

You're conflating two separate anecdotes; my fight was just under 3 minutes with 6 songs. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove by nitpicking, but having fought Nerrivik twice, it's easy to see that it's a very zerg-friendly NM, and if you're wiping on it, either people in your alliance are dropping the ball or you have an issue with group composition, because it's the same melee zerg strat that people have been using for at least half a decade.

[Odin'sLaw]

You're conflating two separate anecdotes; my fight was just under 3 minutes with 6 songs. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove by nitpicking, but having fought Nerrivik twice, it's easy to see that it's a very zerg-friendly NM, and if you're wiping on it, either people in your alliance are dropping the ball or you have an issue with group composition, because it's the same melee zerg strat that people have been using for at least half a decade.

just tried to do this told all drks to stun mayhem and -ga/ja's both my stun and weapon bash was down and he uses mayhem (nothing to worry about right 3 other drks in the group) mayhem hits eats everyone alive >.> asked a couple of the drks in the group about stun "oh i don't have a stun macro why would i'm not a blm" the last 2 weeks has made me die inside more then the past 8 years of ffxi

[Slycer]

In most zerg cases, I think I would preferentially take 2 (3-song) BRDs and a GEO over 3 BRDs. Bolstered Geo-Frailty is beastly (stacked with a Light Shotted Dia II or III of course) and incredibly/instantly obvious on melee numbers. GEO/BLM is also a fine stunner, if needed.

[Carraway]

just tried to do this told all drks to stun mayhem and -ga/ja's both my stun and weapon bash was down and he uses mayhem (nothing to worry about right 3 other drks in the group) mayhem hits eats everyone alive >.> asked a couple of the drks in the group about stun "oh i don't have a stun macro why would i'm not a blm" the last 2 weeks has made me die inside more then the past 8 years of ffxi

If only you had a Daurdabla BRD!

edit: I'm not entirely unsympathetic, but I think it's important to pinpoint exactly what's causing you to lose/wipe/fail when you're trying to get these KIs so you can move on with your life. Daurdablas or lack thereof are pretty low on the totem pole for this particular fight.

[Vyvian]

How do you deal with Nerrivik's aoe status effect spam if you're zerging it? Every tp move it uses aoe's a debilitating status effect to a zerg. Plague, Para, Slow II that overwrites haste, aoe charm although breaking the lamps is pretty fast. You can fan out to limit who gets hit by slow, but the belches hit full circle. I wouldn't call it a hard fight by any means, but even with a buff rotation we couldn't kill it that fast because the DD were getting re-plagued, re-slowed, re-para'd faster than they could be fixed. Are you using sch/blms to attempt to "chain" stun all of the tp moves?

[Sudox]

If you reread the point does stand since you were claiming if it lives past 5 min your DD are incompetent. If it took suddox 4.5 with 8 songs and you say the loss of a song is .5-1 min then the loss of 2 would definitely put your example past 5 min making rhiannons counter of suddoxes incompetent dds statement of less songs 150% correct by your own statements unless you assume suddox was using incompetent dds

Most of the group were pickups but were geared decently (REM, no delve weapons). Both DRKs were using Apocs as a safety net due to pickup healers. With delve weapons and GS on the DRKs the kill time would have obviously decreased. It should only take a few minutes for it to die even with only 4-6 songs (can just use 3 NQ BRD or 2 90 harp BRD). If you're using embrava then even less songs are needed.

[Slycer]

How do you deal with Nerrivik's aoe status effect spam if you're zerging it? Every tp move it uses aoe's a debilitating status effect to a zerg. Plague, Para, Slow II that overwrites haste, aoe charm although breaking the lamps is pretty fast. You can fan out to limit who gets hit by slow, but the belches hit full circle. I wouldn't call it a hard fight by any means, but even with a buff rotation we couldn't kill it that fast because the DD were getting re-plagued, re-slowed, re-para'd faster than they could be fixed. Are you using sch/blms to attempt to "chain" stun all of the tp moves?

Ignoring the AoE Charm since the threat of that should be gone within seconds, if your WHMs are comfortable taking damage from Seismic Tail (PDT setup), they will find it greatly easier to remain in range and use Esuna with Afflatus Misery on. Could Sacrifice one person from out of range, then run in and Esuna, but that wastes time. Also, if you're really worried about the charm, you can always just hold back on your zerg until the lamps are broken (hold it and just whack away until the lamps are gone...should only take a minute...then buff with SV and whatever and zerg it).

[Rhiannon2]

If only you had a Daurdabla BRD!

edit: I'm not entirely unsympathetic, but I think it's important to pinpoint exactly what's causing you to lose/wipe/fail when you're trying to get these KIs so you can move on with your life. Daurdablas or lack thereof are pretty low on the totem pole for this particular fight.

Now who's conflating anecdotes? My original comment was directed toward the fight duration, not the difference between wiping and not wiping. Neither I nor Dasva ever said Daurdabla BRD's were the difference between a win and a loss.

[Vyvian]

Ignoring the AoE Charm since the threat of that should be gone within seconds, if your WHMs are comfortable taking damage from Seismic Tail (PDT setup, go), they will find it greatly easier to remain in range and use Esuna with Afflatus Misery on.

One of the status applied is Silence + Para + Plague (Abominable Belch), wouldn't that pose a pretty big risk? Even Vile Belch is Plague + Silence. And Silencega is one of its magic spells. I have lots of echo drops, but popping echo drops is time wasted, and in a zerg its going to tp move fairly continuously.

[Carraway]

How do you deal with Nerrivik's aoe status effect spam if you're zerging it? Every tp move it uses aoe's a debilitating status effect to a zerg. Plague, Para, Slow II that overwrites haste, aoe charm although breaking the lamps is pretty fast. You can fan out to limit who gets hit by slow, but the belches hit full circle. I wouldn't call it a hard fight by any means, but even with a buff rotation we couldn't kill it that fast because the DD were getting re-plagued, re-slowed, re-para'd faster than they could be fixed. Are you using sch/blms to attempt to "chain" stun all of the tp moves?

Personally, the group that took me had two SCHs and a DRK in a stun rotation (if I remember correctly). Others have recommended using a BLU or two for Absolute Terror. I don't recall its spells being super-dangerous, so if I wanted to do it again, I'd tell my stunners to prioritize Abominable Belch then Vile Belch then Seaspray, and split up the DDs as best as possible to mitigate Seaspray's conal effect. Hypnic/Mayhem should be disabled very early on but I don't know the exact mechanics behind breaking the lantern.

Now who's conflating anecdotes? My original comment was directed toward the fight duration, not the difference between wiping and not wiping. Neither I nor Dasva ever said Daurdabla BRD's were the difference between a win and a loss.

So yeah, if Nerrivik lives past five minutes, it might not be that you have incompetent DDs; maybe you have incompetent mages/support jobs.

[Slycer]

I was on WHM for at least one of those fights using Misery in range and I went through maybe 4-5 echoes, and that was with just one active stunner. The paralyze is not very potent at all and I didn't really have any issue. You could also coordinate your BRDs to Silena WHMs when Belch is used, followed by a quicker Esuna.

[dasva]

You're conflating two separate anecdotes; my fight was just under 3 minutes with 6 songs. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove by nitpicking, but having fought Nerrivik twice, it's easy to see that it's a very zerg-friendly NM, and if you're wiping on it, either people in your alliance are dropping the ball or you have an issue with group composition, because it's the same melee zerg strat that people have been using for at least half a decade.

Sure since he had doesn't have a different song amount i had to combine a little. And neither I nor the person you tried to disprove were saying it isn't easy to zerg. No one mentioned taking forever or wiping. Just that a guy who says it says it took him 4.5 min with 8 songs therefore it takes you 5 your dds suck doesn't work with less songs. This whole if everyone can't do almost exactly as good as me regardless of the resources at hand they must suck is unnecessary and detrimental to the conversation. Not sure what you are trying to prove with your wiping scenario since that wasn't the question at hand

[Carraway]

Sure since he had doesn't have a different song amount i had to combine a little. And neither I nor the person you tried to disprove were saying it isn't easy to zerg. No one mentioned taking forever or wiping. Just that a guy who says it says it took him 4.5 min with 8 songs therefore it takes you 5 your dds suck doesn't work with less songs. This whole if everyone can't do almost exactly as good as me regardless of the resources at hand they must suck is unnecessary and detrimental to the conversation. Not sure what you are trying to prove with your wiping scenario since that wasn't the question at hand

That was a more general comment directed at people reading this thread or posting in this thread about their various difficulties with this fight in particular. Sorry that that wasn't clear.

[Vyvian]

Personally, the group that took me had two SCHs and a DRK in a stun rotation (if I remember correctly). Others have recommended using a BLU or two for Absolute Terror. I don't recall its spells being super-dangerous, so if I wanted to do it again, I'd tell my stunners to prioritize Abominable Belch then Vile Belch then Seaspray, and split up your DDs as best you can to mitigate Seaspray's conal effect. Hypnic/Mayhem should be disabled very early on but I don't know the exact mechanics behind breaking the lantern.

So yeah, if Nerrivik lives past five minutes, it might not be that you have incompetent DDs; maybe you have incompetent mages/support jobs.

It casts pretty high tier magic (Waterja Waterga IV/V), but due to magic division across multiple targets and a simple barwatera, it doesn't hit hard enough to be a problem a curaga III can't solve. I was one of the whm and remember that I probably spent more mp on status fixes than actual cures, I even tried incorporating divine caress, but I still end up having to fix all the other status full time so it didn't save much. We didn't have a lot of stuns though, so if I ever have to fight it again, I'll bring more.