Delve

[NynJa]

so pld "holds" the moth for 3-5 min (while DD's are still meleeing it to give it TP meaning they're still in range for -ga's), and then is useless the rest of the fight. Any reason any other job cant just stack a PDT set and do the exact same job, while being useful for the kill?

[dasva]

so pld "holds" the moth for 3-5 min (while DD's are still meleeing it to give it TP meaning they're still in range for -ga's), and then is useless the rest of the fight. Any reason any other job cant just stack a PDT set and do the exact same job, while being useful for the kill?

Meh I usually hold it for a good minute after they start zerging. Would be longer but of course I don't get any of the buffs lol. But mostly gives them time to get away and buff away from the AOE dmg before the zerg. Anyways you are kinda exaggerating a bit. Not defending it but stacking pdt isn't even close to the same nor is the dmg completely irrelevent. DDs clearly do alot more dmg but at the same time the pld does take alot less... just wont keep hate long after. In a good group sure do away with it... with crappy groups and pugs where every dd is going to die within a minute of having hate at best (and yes I've seen it all too often... er every run I've done with these people) and where buffers refuse to ever walk up next to the mob (but will often stand still in the edge of AOE range...) where you have to argue for 3-4 runs before they will consider using brd rotations and 1hrs.... it has a use

[dasva]

Anyways some more matamata info. It starts out with the normal matamata dmg resistances -12.5% peircing/slashing -25% blunt (not sure about magic/breath) and then goes from there. For example first 1k needles does 875 2nd will do 437. So 7 doubles would end up being only about 112X of normal dmg for peircing/slashing 96X for blunt. This is for impact blunt btw not really sure if there is a good way to test h2h blunt but they tend to be the same when it's a penalty

[Dotsudoku]

Paladin for moth is pretty justified. Basically wasting a slot for everything else, though

[NynJa]

I guess we have a differing opinion then...you just said it yourself though, "I have hate for about a minute once the DD's start going to town". If your healers cant handle curing someone whos holding Moth for 3-5 min without hiding behind an ochain but in a 35-40% PDT set, sounds like someone needs to upgrade from a vermillion cloak and light staff.

As for the case above, dudes saying Calcifying Mist was the gamebreaker...having a PLD or no PLD is not going to alter that problem. Having stupid DD's does affect it though.
Peiste readies Calcifying Mist.
(IdiotDD) Stona, im pet
WHM casts Stona.
No effect

Instead of casting curaga, theyre casting stona...

[dasva]

I guess we have a differing opinion then...you just said it yourself though, "I have hate for about a minute once the DD's start going to town". If your healers cant handle curing someone whos holding Moth for 3-5 min without hiding behind an ochain but in a 35-40% PDT set, sounds like someone needs to upgrade from a vermillion cloak and light staff.

Shit I was hiding behind ochain and about that much pdt and would still eat dirt sometimes due to lack of cures... And they have that and better... so the I had to upgrade to throwing a pearl on the ground

[Tidane]

As for the case above, dudes saying Calcifying Mist was the gamebreaker...having a PLD or no PLD is not going to alter that problem. Having stupid DD's does affect it though.
Peiste readies Calcifying Mist.
(IdiotDD) Stona, im pet
WHM casts Stona.
No effect

While that was a problem in the past, I don't think that was the problem in this group. I made it pretty clear that Calcifying Mist was Gradual Petrify and not Petrify and that Stona did not remove Gradual Petrify. I didn't see people calling out for Stona as soon as Calcifying Mist went off, anyway. There were obviously issues with getting people cured quickly enough, though, given the fact that people were dying.

Is Calcifying Mist's Gradual Petrify not a problem for other groups, then? I thought the constantly decreased attack speed would make it pretty common for kills to run longer than they should.

[Helel]

While that was a problem in the past, I don't think that was the problem in this group. I made it pretty clear that Calcifying Mist was Gradual Petrify and not Petrify and that Stona did not remove Gradual Petrify. I didn't see people calling out for Stona as soon as Calcifying Mist went off, anyway. There were obviously issues with getting people cured quickly enough, though, given the fact that people were dying.

Is Calcifying Mist's Gradual Petrify not a problem for other groups, then? I thought the constantly decreased attack speed would make it pretty common for kills to run longer than they should.

Ranger.

[Odin'sLaw]

I guess we have a differing opinion then...you just said it yourself though, "I have hate for about a minute once the DD's start going to town". If your healers cant handle curing someone whos holding Moth for 3-5 min without hiding behind an ochain but in a 35-40% PDT set, sounds like someone needs to upgrade from a vermillion cloak and light staff.

As for the case above, dudes saying Calcifying Mist was the gamebreaker...having a PLD or no PLD is not going to alter that problem. Having stupid DD's does affect it though.
Peiste readies Calcifying Mist.
(IdiotDD) Stona, im pet
WHM casts Stona.
No effect

Instead of casting curaga, theyre casting stona...

you must not get out much, you tried telling a pug healer your stoned? it wears off before they even pretend to look for stona

[Pebe]

The problem with holding the moth as a DD in pdt gear is that DDs can't use their main source of hate holding.... damage! Sometimes the provoke just doesn't cut it if the wamoura is being a dick. Once everything gets situated and the exuviation spam has begun thats fine. But before that cures can pull hate quite easily off a DD holding with just provoke. Something Something enmity- build.

[NynJa]

you must not get out much, you tried telling a pug healer your stoned? it wears off before they even pretend to look for stona

And that justifies whm's wasting time casting stona when it wont take effect and then melee's dying to a back to back calcifying mist. I dont get the "You must not get out much" line in reference to what you said though, makes no sense.

The problem with holding the moth as a DD in pdt gear is that DDs can't use their main source of hate holding.... damage! Sometimes the provoke just doesn't cut it if the wamoura is being a dick. Once everything gets situated and the exuviation spam has begun thats fine. But before that cures can pull hate quite easily off a DD holding with just provoke. Something Something enmity- build.

Tachi: Gekko deals good damage and induces a debuff
Ukko's Fury deals good damage and induces a debuff.
Shinjin Spiral deals good damage and induces a debuff.
Exenterator deals okay damage and induces a debuff.
Stardiver deals good damage and induces a debuff.
Did I miss anything?

[dasva]

you must not get out much, you tried telling a pug healer your stoned? it wears off before they even pretend to look for stona

Assuming they even have it lol.

[NynJa]

k, I'm sorry, I'm one of the first people who rag on shit tier PUG players, but really to say that people take 2 minutes to find and cast stona, or "if they even have it" is entering full retard levels. And if you do wind up inviting people so fucking braindead, how about growing some balls and saying "YOURE REALLY REALLY REALLY BAD AT THIS GAME" and kick them out??

[Dotsudoku]

Tachi: Gekko deals good damage and induces a debuff
Ukko's Fury deals good damage and induces a debuff.
Shinjin Spiral deals good damage and induces a debuff.
Exenterator deals okay damage and induces a debuff.
Stardiver deals good damage and induces a debuff.
Did I miss anything?

..while you're trying to remove its PDT?

[NynJa]

Why not? The whole point is to put debuffs on it so it forces Exuviation...if the whole problem is "DD cant hold hate through just white damage", and these WS's contribute to the "put debuffs on it so it spams Exuviation", whats the problem? Does it force Fire Break or Probsicis or whatever else because people are WSing it? Last I heard, no...so I dont see the problem.

its not like its going to be impossible to hold hate. It doesnt rape face from the get go, and after 3-4 Exuviations (which you can rely on for voke or warcry, or your drk can cast stun), even with 80% PDT, those WS's should generate enough attention to keep it off mages.

[dasva]

k, I'm sorry, I'm one of the first people who rag on shit tier PUG players, but really to say that people take 2 minutes to find and cast stona, or "if they even have it" is entering full retard levels. And if you do wind up inviting people so fucking braindead, KICK THEM OUT.

You'd be suprised how often I hear I don't have that spell/merit ability. This is mostly shouts I've joined or lss where I can't kick. If I was leader fuck yeah I would be in a second.

[CubsWoo]

After a few Jagil runs I'm fairly sure that healing it with the element associated with whatever mode is in also has the effect of charging up its enspell damage. Both wipes I've just been a part of have seen enspell damage go from ~300 per hit to ~1400 and more per hit in less than 45 seconds once it switched to light mode and a ton of Dias and Enlight procs healed it.

Edit: enspell damage went from 400 to 700 after two absorbed Fire Shots.

[RicFlair]

So trying to confirm strategy for Gnat cuz I'm not sure if I read it right a bunch of pages back... So when the Gnat reflects the debuffs you cast on it, can you still erase/sacrifice your DDs or do DDs have to have to keep the debuffs in order for the DT and eva to remain low?

And is the debuff reflect an AoE one?

[Jem]

Realised we never confirmed it before. Just to confirm multiplier is definitely 1x > 2x > 3x> 4x > 5x for NM kills inside Delve.



Multiplier still applies even if you were out of ally for some of the kills. Like my wife was out of party on BRD for 1st + 2nd kills but still got full multiplier on remaining kills.

Morimar really is the easiest zone to do all 5 in, took us 32 mins and wasn't fully clean. Could trim a fair bit off that. Gave us some extra time to dick around with Tojil at least.

EDIT: 10500 Plasm run for the record. We only killed adds that aggroed/linked with the NMs and ran straight to Tojil after 5th kill. If we had focused purely on points could have got like ~14k ish probably.

[ccl]

Just did 5 NM in morimar with 10min to spare to play with Tojil.

edit: jem was faster!