"Health is a cultural construction, not a “fact” that can be defined in terms of science"

[Ashmada]

Always lulz to see people who never had any mental illness(es) throw their disdain at the clinically depressed.
Afterall, they've felt down in the past but they overcame it through sheer strength of will, so anyone can!
They don't realise they sound just as ridiculous as someone shouting at cancer patients that they should just man up and beat cancer because, hey, I had a cold once and got better on my own!

Some things can be overcome through willpower. Illnesses, be they physical or mental, aren't on the list.
(losing weight probably is on the list, though - not sure how the thread derailed to depression)


Anyway, back to the fatties: fad diets are bunk. Overcomplicated rules about what you can eat, when and with what, you'll never be able to stick to them even if they did work.
The path to weight loss is exceedingly simple (but it's too lucrative to admit it): eat less. Eat the same shit you usually do, just smaller portions.
Yes, you'll feel hungry. Your body thinks it needs more than it actually does, so it's pretty much unavoidable.
But you won't be actually starving, so just endure.

[Charismatic]

I lol'd when someone said you are right but your tone is mean.

Pussification of 'Murica!

That leadership style is terrible online though, most guilds are full of people waiting to tell you that your opinion ends where their feelings begin. I've never actually had an issue with it the reals, but holy shit the drama that telling someone what to do can cause.

Elcura isn't American, but even if he were... this is literally on the subject of emotion. I mean, if this were some scientific shit being discussed it would be easily dismissed but if you think a depressed person isn't gonna let emotions run wild you have to be going full retard.
Some people just won't ever understand this but a light touch is actually needed at times. Wouldn't call that being a pussy, just not going full retard.

And yes, Brill is mostly correct... correct about everything other than his implication that depression is just something where you can damn near flip a switch and just find yourself climbing out of the rut.

[Xajii]

Right. It isn't about being offended or not; it's about what angle of approach and how advice OS delivered that will actually help a depressed person. I agree Brilliant that CBT is great.

[Kuishen]

Brill wasn't saying flip a switch and you're suddenly going to feel better, he was saying that you have to actually start doing shit to make yourself feel better otherwise you will never feel better (shocking, I know). Which is 100% true.

Again, I've suffered from serious depression since before I was a teenager, and the best remedy is to force yourself to do things that will have positive effects on your situation. Nobody is implying that it's going to be easy.

[Tyrath]

Part of the problem is people are offering things from their personal experience and saying that it will work for everyone. I'm glad you were able to force yourself out of it, I really am. But that approach just doesn't work for everyone.

[Kuishen]

There is no other approach though.

Depression makes you have no motivation to do anything at all, even things you enjoy. Unless you force yourself to take steps to correct that (whether it be taking meds, seeking counseling, exercise, etc.) then you're not going to get better.

The only other approach is to do nothing and hope you get better, and that never works.

By all means if you can think of another way to get yourself out of a rut that isn't DOING something about it, enlighten me.

[Rhyis.]

There is no other approach though.

Depression makes you have no motivation to do anything at all, even things you enjoy. Unless you force yourself to take steps to correct that (whether it be taking meds, seeking counseling, exercise, etc.) then you're not going to get better.

The only other approach is to do nothing and hope you get better, and that never works.

By all means if you can think of another way to get yourself out of a rut that isn't DOING something about it, enlighten me.

Thank you.

[Tyrath]

I'm not saying that for someone who is depressed that just doing things won't get them through it.

I'm saying YOU telling them to just "get over it" won't do anything. Anything like that has to come from themselves. And if they can't do it, then they need help from professionals whose way of guiding them doesn't involve telling them to "get over it" because not everyone can just do that.

[Rhyis.]

So telling somebody to do something to change their life, when they need to do something to change their life, isn't going to do anything and those people are at fault for bringing it up.

[Moss]

I always wanted to become a psychiatrist just so I could listen to people's problems and say "well just get over it!"

[Tyrath]

ITT: Severe lack of understanding of mental illnesses.

[Kuishen]

Seeking help from a professional is DOING something.

I feel really stupid saying that because it seems like it would be common sense, if you don't do anything then nothing is going to change. The way in which you arrive to that conclusion, the actual DOING part, and what they do is going to vary from person to person, but that IS the only way it's going to get done.

You'll note that I never said "get over it" either, because I've been told that by others who don't understand mental illness and you're right, it doesn't help. The person in question needs to come to that conclusion on their own and the fastest way to do that is to hit rock bottom like I did, at which point they will realize they have a choice. Others telling them that they need to DO something can help, but that largely depends on the person and how it's said.

EDIT: We've also already established that people on the internet telling somebody they need to change generally isn't going to cut it, so I don't know what you're arguing with me for.

[Tyrath]

^ In that case it wasn't you I was arguing with at all. Sorry for the confusion.

I'm out for the night, but I'll just leave it with saying that I agree with the stuff you just said. My only problem has been with people who seem to think that depression is just easy to get over just because you work to do so. Yeah, it might work out once you get to that point. But it takes some people a lot of work and support to be able to get there. And it isn't just about willpower. If it were, it wouldn't be a mental health issue at all.

[Rhyis.]

^ In that case it wasn't you I was arguing with at all. Sorry for the confusion.

I'm out for the night, but I'll just leave it with saying that I agree with the stuff you just said. My only problem has been with people who seem to think that depression is just easy to get over just because you work to do so. Yeah, it might work out once you get to that point. But it takes some people a lot of work and support to be able to get there. And it isn't just about willpower. If it were, it wouldn't be a mental health issue at all.

You've been arguing with nobody, 'cause nobody said that shit.

[BaneTheBrawler]

The assertion was more along the lines of "Work at it anyway, pussy"

[hey]

The only other approach is to do nothing and hope you get better, and that never works.

Or until a friend/family member/life forces you to do something. If doing nothing doesn't work (which it does sometimes), that's usually how it goes. If you are able to force yourself to do something, it's not that bad anyway.

[Brill Weave]

Always lulz to see people who never had any mental illness(es) throw their disdain at the clinically depressed.
Afterall, they've felt down in the past but they overcame it through sheer strength of will, so anyone can!
They don't realise they sound just as ridiculous as someone shouting at cancer patients that they should just man up and beat cancer because, hey, I had a cold once and got better on my own!

Not sure if this was directed at me or not. If it was you may want to go back and read where I underwent CBT because I was suicidal when I was younger and took pretty much every antidepressant known to man.

[Ksandra]

That's kind of the thing. You have to actually stick to it to get results. It's ridiculous to believe that somehow your body simply won't respond to programs that work for others.

I am not saying you are wrong, just how my mental process works. When I wok out/diet for a month on programs "that work for others" and then only lose a pound at the end of it, then ya I am not going to have the desire/strength/willpower/whatever you want to call it to keep going.

[Kerberoz]

When I wok out/diet for a month on programs "that work for others"

There's your problem. "Programs" are bullshit. Calories in, calories out.

[Ksandra]

There's your problem. "Programs" are bullshit. Calories in, calories out.

Gadritan used the word program so I went with it. Any plan falls under program. Me doing plans to have less calories in than out still only were able to make me lose about a pound in a month and I felt like total crap by the end of it.


People say "you start to enjoy it" Never had that happen. Even with the personal trainer I felt exhausted and was miserable, but as I said I think the goody two-shoes in me kept winning out. Not because of any concept of feeling better.