Super Smash Bros.

[Adajer]

Only caption required.....







YESSSS!!!!!!!

[Adajer]

I really hope the roll back on the nerf to fox, gg

[Krandor]

The disrespect captured in gif form to admire on an endless loop

http://giant.gfycat.com/FlimsyDisgus...ndsquirrel.gif

[Adajer]

Who's idea was it to make link's arrow so ridiculously OP. what in THE fuck.

[Genosync]

Who's idea was it to make link's arrow so ridiculously OP. what in THE fuck.

It's not really that overpowered; what problems are you having with it and how are you responding to it currently, and who are you using? Almost every character has a way to deal with it. And one of the easiest ways is to not use Jump2 early.

[Adajer]

It's not really that overpowered; what problems are you having with it and how are you responding to it currently, and who are you using? Almost every character has a way to deal with it. And one of the easiest ways is to not use Jump2 early.

PLaying 4 player smash with my family in GA. Nephew just sits in the corner and holds it. I have been reflecting them with fox, but there is no reason to have something that OP in the game.

[Genosync]

PLaying 4 player smash with my family in GA. Nephew just sits in the corner and holds it. I have been reflecting them with fox, but there is no reason to have something that OP in the game.

Alright, this is going to be long because I'm going to address the thing people are going to run into on For Glory 1v1s like I have lately, namely against Links. Playing a certain Link player I got for almost an hour the other day definitely helped me realize just how good projectiles are in Smash 4.

Not sure how old your nephew is, so I'm not sure if he's on a level of knowing what he's doing or not quite yet, but the fact that landing on the ground after playing with risk in the air can be punished from a distance with projectiles so, so easily makes it very easy for Link's bow among other things to hit. And honestly, it's a great thing that has changed from Brawl.

If he's spamming, single the kid out. Make him learn early that not only does that kind of shit not work, but it makes everyone he's playing with highly annoyed and not want to play with him anymore. There's a dude that plays Doubles sometimes at ODU (local 4year school) and spams stuff with Pikachu in Melee/PM, and I purposely single him out every single match to make him feel bad, even if it would have been better to rack up combos with my random teammate. I wish he'd either learn to play or go away.

But, if he's older and knows what he's doing, this might be what's going through his head (which is honestly the correct way to use Link at distances while waiting for landings):

1. Opponent jumps from really far away, or is attempting a rather obvious recovery to land onto the stage
2. Maybe throw a boomerang out, but then Ima chargin mah lazorz from a distance away that the character in question can't cover (or, at least the Link thinks they can't cover... So many MUs to learn...)
3. Branches here: has the opponent used jump2 on a character without multiple jumps (or, used all available jumps on that char)?
- Yes: options are now HIGHLY limited. If the opponent enters fast fall, they're forced into that speed until they hit the ground or use a special or aerial that alters momentum. Easy to time an arrow on that or even a non-fastfall version, and a full charge arrow does heavy knock back, AS IT ALWAYS SHOULD HAVE. Giant bows with giant arrows killed plenty of people irl, no reason to make that risky kind of charge up weak. The only options out of getting hit at this point is a counter/reflect move, or a special that causes some kind of vertical movement (which follows into more possible punishment), a projectile that cancels a full charge arrow (not sure what does right now, have not used anything but the Sheikian nightmare while learning the Link MU), or Link/TLink's shield if you can land on the ground in time and enter the neutral state (not sure if this is possible). You can't airdodge into the ground because that's going to cause ~22 frames of recovery time (wii fit gets 12, lol. Mac/Pac get 19/18 respectively) that you're wide open for. I don't think there's any aerial attacks that cancels a full arrow either but I'd be interested in trying a few things out. And I'm aware that the list there looks like a lot of options, but you've got to think about what kind of delay those options are going to bring from using them, and how Link can follow up and punish their use (which, Link is built in this game as Bait and Punish, and works extremely well with that mindset and playstyle). TL;DR, if you've used your jumps, Link's going to hit you with the arrow or he'll get you with something else, or he's forced you into being locked into a spot for at least a second.
- No: Shoot the arrow anyway, follow with another retreating projectile or Zair (or an up thrown boomerang if they jump), DACUS or just dash USmash, advancing nair, UpB out of shield, something might hit but basically that arrow attempt was a 100% safe KO/damage rack option. Dodging options are now unlimited because you add the possibility of halting your landing with a jump, and have the chance to punish the Link with multiple options if the Link didn't space out well enough.



TL;DR it's your fault if you get hit by the arrow; the Link player is just taking advantage of your poor choices in movement and committing to certain scenarios. You can use this against them eventually with some conditioning; take a few of these hits at lower percentages and make them think you don't know how to deal with it, and then punish them hard for trying it when they're either in KO range or at an easy combo %.

Smash4 might not be as deep as Melee/PM, but the fighting game mechanics are here and they're real.

You can beat those arrows by a spamming kid easily though. If he's a young kid, wants to play Smash at a higher level, and starts to feel bad, he needs to realize it's a lesson you're trying to teach him (so maybe explain it to him). Or just show him this post and my other post that details projectile use. I used to hate projectile characters in Brawl, but I don't think I'll pick up a character in Smash4 (outside of a Doubles synergy character) that doesn't have projectiles.

God, Needles are so damn good. Sheik <3 all day. Maybe I'll start using Link some too. My Shulk is dead lol

[Meian]

It isn't op, in fact Toon Link can be more annoying with his projectiles as I have done to Dedede's that just sit back and spam Gordos all day (more annoying than arrows too). 4 way isn't very good indication of OP because stuff like Robin's charged up Thunder hitting everyone and scoring steal kills is easy or Duck Hunt spammage of explosions.

Just short hop over to him and smack him is what I do.

[Nitsuki]

Genosync: "single the kid out" making kids cry since 2000

[Meian]

KK, tired of playing strangers, someone add me

2921 9082 2995

Added ya 5472 8123 6002 (Diego)

[Genosync]

Genosync: "single the kid out" making kids cry since 2000

Man, the way I hear kids acting these days from my mother-in-law who teaches second grade compared to what it was like 20 years ago when I was that age, SOMEONE needs to teach that generation how to act because the parents usually aren't. Wrong thread for that rant so I'm not touching it further.

Hope the projectile meta info's useful; I don't know if anyone's benefiting from it or not but if you guys want to try to get better along with me, I'll always share whatever kind of realizations I come to and hope y'all do the same.

[Corrderio]

The disrespect captured in gif form to admire on an endless loop

http://giant.gfycat.com/FlimsyDisgus...ndsquirrel.gif

I'm at a loss for words...

[Nitsuki]

Man, the way I hear kids acting these days from my mother-in-law who teaches second grade compared to what it was like 20 years ago when I was that age, SOMEONE needs to teach that generation how to act because the parents usually aren't. Wrong thread for that rant so I'm not touching it further.

Lol, i'm just messin' dude. I'm in full agreement with you. Back to topic: played 4 player local for the first time at my gf's bday getty, way fun. Can't wait for 8 player wii u version.

[Genosync]

I just died to an uncharged Lucario Fsmash at 36%. That's total bullshit.

[nivlakian]

I haven't been playing as much as I originally intended, but I just wanted to say thanks to Genosync for pointing out how horrible landing lag is if you air dodge into the ground in this game. I didn't realize that was the cause since I don't recall it being an issue in Brawl.

[Genosync]

I haven't been playing as much as I originally intended, but I just wanted to say thanks to Genosync for pointing out how horrible landing lag is if you air dodge into the ground in this game. I didn't realize that was the cause since I don't recall it being an issue in Brawl.

No problem. Brawl is like 3 frames or some bs like that, but Smash4 is over a third of a second outside of four characters.

[Tokitoki]

No problem. Brawl is like 3 frames or some bs like that, but Smash4 is over a third of a second outside of four characters.

It's a tough habit for me to break. Even though I try to be conscious of it, sometimes I catch myself doing it.

I feel the pain.

[Genosync]

It's a tough habit for me to break. Even though I try to be conscious of it, sometimes I catch myself doing it.

I feel the pain.

Start hitting attack instead, or start landing further away. Even most aerials have less landing lag than air dodges. This is also why it's so much more important to keep Jump2 in Smash4 compared to Melee/Brawl/PM (even though it was still just as important there).

I had three people in a row rage quit on me in For Glory 1v1 simply because they couldn't land on the stage because of air dodging into it. Punished it every single time. One just ran offstage after 0% to 90% and the other two did after dropping their first stock while maybe hitting me once or twice. I wasn't spamming and it's such an easy way to get in people's head to condition them.

I forgot who posted this before but this has been one of the many things that has evolved my understanding of the game:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...htmlview?pli=1

Not only is there that, but pretty sure some aerials have frames during startup that autocancel on landing. Forgot which, but something to think about.

So happy with Smash 4. So, so happy.

[Tokitoki]

Start hitting attack instead, or start landing further away. Even most aerials have less landing lag than air dodges. This is also why it's so much more important to keep Jump2 in Smash4 compared to Melee/Brawl/PM (even though it was still just as important there).

I had three people in a row rage quit on me in For Glory 1v1 simply because they couldn't land on the stage because of air dodging into it. Punished it every single time. One just ran offstage after 0% to 90% and the other two did after dropping their first stock while maybe hitting me once or twice. I wasn't spamming and it's such an easy way to get in people's head to condition them.

I forgot who posted this before but this has been one of the many things that has evolved my understanding of the game:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...htmlview?pli=1

Not only is there that, but pretty sure some aerials have frames during startup that autocancel on landing. Forgot which, but something to think about.

So happy with Smash 4. So, so happy.

That's a good chart to read up more on. Went down to Greninja, since I play him most often, and noticed his Nair had least frames. That's what I normally used to land, but it's good to know that I chose correctly.

On the down side, it looks like pretty much anything Duck Hunt does has awful frames. Fair or just landing seem to be his only choices.

[Genosync]

Neutral B and sideB aren't too bad for him too.