Beta 3 impressions and general discussion

[Grey Jorildyn]

Yeah, for real.

[Churchill]

And 1 month down the road, a small/medium community would know not to do things with the bi-polar mascot.

[Tidane]

As much as I'd love to blame the Duty Finder for anti-social behavior in video games, it is absolutely not the case. Prior to the implementation of the Duty Finder, people shouted for parties or put up their LFG flag, joined groups, said hi, bye, congrats, and (if the encountered required) what needed to be done. After the implementation of the Duty Finder? Exactly the same thing. Final Fantasy XIV is, whether you want it to be or not, very much rooted in the New Age of MMO Players. People don't talk often, unless they want to inform or berate, unless they're talking in guild chat. Random groups are about getting in, accomplishing a goal, and getting out. The pace and expectations are set much higher than older games. If you're not accomplishing goals constantly and quickly, you're wasting time. Comparing this to something like Final Fantasy XI, which has a much older and stranger player-base coupled with a slower game, you're going to be disappointed. People still want to accomplish things as quickly as possible, but the nature of the gameplay is much more conductive to talking during content.

As for the discussion about cross-server communication, friend lists, and etc: we can argue "play with your Linkshell/Free Company" or "play with real friends", but those statements are nothing more than a red herring. Playing with friends from either your real life or Linkshell/FC is not a solution to the inability to make friends because they're on a different server. Yoshi has designed his game with a huge focus placed on the dungeon content and the Duty Finder. If this content is going to be highly cross server, then it stands to reason that making the friend list cross server and allowing friends to queue together in the Duty Finder from different servers should be a priority. If you choose not to attempt to make friends during cross-server content, their is nothing wrong with that, but the fact that people are restricted from doing so when there is no huge, insurmountable technical challenge is odd, but not out of character for SquareEnix.

From my perspective, the reason they didn't design the system with this in mind and seem so resistant to change is fairly obvious. Yoshi, however much he has changed about Final Fantasy XIV, is still very much stubborn in his own designs. That isn't to say that all his ideas are bad, but that if something isn't what he wants, he won't do it. He's gone on record saying that this isn't the MMO he would make if it wasn't a Final Fantasy game, so it is difficult to tell what he's doing because it is a "Final Fantasy" game versus what he is doing because it is what he wants. I suspect that his reasoning for not providing better cross-server capabilities tracks something like this:

Once you have people on different servers adding each other to their friend list, they'll want to queue together in the Duty Finder. Once people can queue in the Duty Finder together, they'll want to be able to communicate with their friends on another server. Messages through the friend list (like POL) would be clunky, so they would want tells. Once you're sending tells to people on other servers to queue with you in the Duty Finder to do a dungeon that pulls in people from two to six other servers, people are going to ask why they can't play other content with their friends that are on other servers. If I want to do quests in the world or other world content, why can't they come play with me? At that point, why even have servers? Everyone should play on the same "super-server", in the same economy, with area instances being created and destroyed as needed (I'm sure that sounds familiar). With regional data centers, there really is no reason that an entire data center shouldn't be the same world, from the player's perspective.

For whatever reason, SquareEnix and Yoshi are shying away from this and seem to be hiding behind technical limitations and handwaving. Not being able to do a super-server is a technical limitation the players could be convinced is real, but saying that you're unable to allow a player to send a tell to a friend on their original server makes them seem inept. Once they admit that it is possible, however, we fall into the scenario where it is then unreasonable to be unable to send tells to players on other servers, which leads down the rabbit hole...


Personally, I would much prefer that both data centers act as a single server. If they want to segregate the community into servers instead of data centers (which, considering that there is no Server vs. Server content, is strange), place priority so that people from the same original server tend to be in the same instance of an area. Having a single world per data center would not only remove many of the problems that people have with cross-server content, but it also helps with some technical restrictions and limitations (number of simultaneous players logged in, uneven server loads, and other load balancing issues). Obviously, it does require that SquareEnix do some additional work upfront, but the long term gains would be worth it.

[arus2001]

Said it before, but they just need to parrot Rift's cross-server abilities with a bit of added polish on top.

A lot of other "But...!" commentary just reeks of people pining their virgin MMO days with everyone being all friendly, patient, and understanding. Nope, that shit's gone. Ain't coming back, and it's not just because tech has improved or one game is better or worse.

[Aristio]

Said it before, but they just need to parrot Rift's cross-server abilities with a bit of added polish on top.

A lot of other "But...!" commentary just reeks of people pining their virgin MMO days with everyone being all friendly, patient, and understanding. Nope, that shit's gone. Ain't coming back, and it's not just because tech has improved or one game is better or worse.

I would prefer GW2 Guesting system over Rift's cross-server abilities. Any new MMO that doesn't have a form of cross-server interaction beyond a Dungeon Finder is lacking.

[arus2001]

Granted when I'd played GW2 guesting wasn't functioning, so not sure what differences there are. Least in Rift's version, you can tell/friend/join up with anyone on another shard. Only current restriction, I think, is trading.

[Aristio]

Granted when I'd played GW2 guesting wasn't functioning, so not sure what differences there are. Least in Rift's version, you can tell/friend/join up with anyone on another shard. Only current restriction, I think, is trading.

In GW2, you can guest freely by grouping up with other people on other servers. Or, you can choose two servers to keep hopping back and forth freely once every 24 hours. So you can choose three servers to jump between or freely jump around with friends.

Only restriction is that you can't join another server's WvW.

[Jaybar]

Lots of great feedback (minus social networking) about the Duty Finder. You know who would really like to know? The FFXIV Beta Feedback forums.

I did my first Toto-Rak last night, and I must say this is the kind of difficulty I was looking for. All four of us were new to the dungeon, and two were JP. Me and the other NA bonded quite well despite being from different servers. When it came to the boss there was a lot of trial and error, but the reward for completion was gratifying. Left with a crimson spear :3

[luxv]

I'm okay with the Duty Finder for basic grinding type stuff. Honestly, for anything slightly complicated you're not going to want to be doing it with random strangers.

Ever try to do a pickup Whitegate shout group Divine Might in XI? Fuck that.

I do wonder if you can blacklist a player and not ever wind up with them in a Duty Finder group again.

[Headspace]

Eventually they're going to need a "Retry" button for failed dungeon attempts. A lot of the population is concentrated on the 15-30 range, so it doesn't take too long to find a group if yours fails. That won't be the case after a few months of release, and it may take 20-30 minutes or longer to find a group for a dungeon no one likes but is required for some reason or another. Would suck to wipe on Ifrit to have to wait another 20-30 minutes for a second attempt.

[Niiro]

JESUS CHRIST I JUST HEARD SOMEONE SYNTHING WITH A FILE SOMEONE PLEASE STAB ME IN THE EAR.

[Gokulo]

JESUS CHRIST I JUST HEARD SOMEONE SYNTHING WITH A FILE SOMEONE PLEASE STAB ME IN THE EAR.

Do it with this:

Spoiler: show

[Akiyama]

I get the stuff about wanting to make friends with people from the Duty Finder (and I understand it's a newly implemented system?) so if you find you had a lot of fun, just ask them what server they're on and go from there Though the problem I think is how quickly the Duty Finder missions end. I know the first Guildhest I did, I nearly didn't get the reward because it seems to close out pretty darned fast! I think that should be changed. Outside of that, I really love the idea of getting a quick, random party without sitting around for days, getting my quest done, and moving on to open world questing again. That's the best thing ever. I've actually had some fun solo-questing and I haven't had that much fun in a MMO in.. a long ass time.

As far as responsive goes, I dunno. It feels a little less responsive than some games out there, but it's no where NEAR as bad as 1.0. Not in the slightest. That game was absolutely ..awful to me.

[Rocl]

JESUS CHRIST I JUST HEARD SOMEONE SYNTHING WITH A FILE SOMEONE PLEASE STAB ME IN THE EAR.

Fucking grindstones are NNNNNNNNNNNNNGH inducing

[LidenbokValour]

Regarding Test End Date& Time

Thank you for participating in the FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn Beta Test.
This is to notify the end date and time for the 4th Beta Test, Test Phase 3 that has started on July 5th.
Thanks to everyone who participated in the test, we have confirmed the stability in the Duty Finder, and will be ending the 4th Beta Test on July 7th, 2013 at 2:00 a.m. (PDT) / July 7th, 2013 at 9:00 a.m. (GMT).

We thank you for your participation for the ongoing testing.


Don't really know where else to put this.

Phase4 speculations go!

[Hatedregret]

The Guildhest ends after you get the reward so it seems like you don't have time but if you sit there for a while you'll see that is not the case.

[Takiwaki]

Regarding Test End Date& Time

Thank you for participating in the FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn Beta Test.
This is to notify the end date and time for the 4th Beta Test, Test Phase 3 that has started on July 5th.
Thanks to everyone who participated in the test, we have confirmed the stability in the Duty Finder, and will be ending the 4th Beta Test on July 7th, 2013 at 2:00 a.m. (PDT) / July 7th, 2013 at 9:00 a.m. (GMT).

We thank you for your participation for the ongoing testing.


Don't really know where else to put this.

Phase4 speculations go!

There is going to be a 5th phase 3 test, confirmed on the jp forums.

[Ratatapa]

There is going to be another phase 3 test.

Tbh i hope thus is the last then 1-2 weeks debriefing then p4

[Reve]

I'm hoping the next test is the end of p3 and p4 starts soonish too. I don't really want to do anymore in p3, want to save it for when it actually counts.

[Shiyo]

I cannot see how the duty finder prevents you from fostering friendships. Nothing is stopping you from chatting with the group you're set up with. Just how hard have you tried reaching out to the people you dungeon with, during and after?

So the finder sets you up with people from different servers, is that an obstacle you cannot overcome? Did you not asked if there are anyone from the same server and continue from there?

Like several people mentioned already, if you don't like the duty finder, you don't have to use it. It's optional. I'm sure there are alternatives you can find that better suit your needs. Whether you find it or not is up to you.

Nope, not optional. It's easy, convenient, and 99% of the population will use it. Anyone who wants to do the dungeon will be queueing up and for it and alt tabbing, shouting for members will result in no one or taking even longer than pre-duty finder(it took me 5 mins to find people pre-duty finder anyways..) to f ind groups. Having to pray the person is on my server? So I'm only allowed to make friends on the small slight off chance that the person is on my server? That's horrible, and makes no sense.

Also when you talked to that guy throughout a dungeon, you gained a friend as well as 2 people who hates your guts

What? it was 2 people I already knew, and a random pug, we all talked the entire dungoen, had tons of fun, and we all befriended this new person. We then kept running persons with them, and have been doing dungeons and fates with eachother all beta test weekends so far. This would not have been possible with the current duty finder.

Shiyo, you need facebook or something if you want to make random friends.

I don't need "random friends" I want "people to enjoy FF14 with" and "friends who also play ff14 with the same playtime or close to as me to play with". I should use facebook to make friends to play FF14 with? That makes....no sense.

How often will you find some random person on FB who plays FF14? How often are they are on your server? How often do you actually find them enjoyable to be around? How often do they not already have friends/static? How often do they have have the same playtime as you or are same timezone? Horrible suggestion.

Most people enjoy playing MMO's with others, not many people are going to enjoy a MMO for very long pugging everything. They'll eventually want to find some cool friends, find a cool guild/static, and keep running stuff with the same people. Bullshitting, having actual teamwork communication and being able to get shit done because everyone is pulling their weight makes everything a lot more fun. Most people enjoy a game for much, much, MUCH longer just because of their friendships inside the game and how fun the people they play with are for them. It makes a much more enjoyable experience to be around friends. This is also important for a sub MMO, because you want people constantly playing and logging on, having friends that make the game still fun even when the actual game isn't as fun to you anymore, but playing with these friends still makes the game enjoyable because they just enjoy the company of said friends.

I have many steam friends who constantly play co-op and shit F2P MMO's that are HORRIBLE, and I ask them why they play them and how they have fun. They tell me "I play them with friends, anythings fun with my friends".

Use the search function? You want to interact with people from your server but you want DF to blind invites you with a group of people without talking to them first.

So people need to go COMPLETELY out of their way to meet people and talk to people now, and that's ok? This ie exactly my point, you need to go completely out of your way, interrupt your own gameplay, and do things you normally wouldn't, harass people, just to make friends. This is OK? No, it's not at all. This also wasn't a problem pre-duty finder and you were not required to do insane things like this because you'd just play like normal, run dungeons/guildhests like normal, and meet people you could add to your flist and keep talking to doing your normal everyday in game activities.

That is the problem, that is a huge problem. Not many people are going to go completely out of their way for social interaction, social interaction should by default be in the game, and making friends should not be some huge obstacle course of infinite hoops and hurdles we need to go through. That is fucking stupid and needs fixed. Right now you need to jump through infinite hoops and hurdles just to make friends to enjoya massively multiplayer game with. I don't see how anyone can argue that's ok.

Duty finder needs to be server only, or allow the option of picking server only(I prefer server only). I have posted this on the official forums in many threads, and there's numerous threads saying this same issue, with one at 40+ pages and a few others ~20+.