German magazine claims US spying on European Union offices

**Churchill** · 2013-06-30 15:01

Everyone knows you're doing it, this magazine isn't the German government and as such doesn't have to keep its mouth shut because this magazine doesn't have people spying on the US.

**Kuya** · 2013-06-30 15:08

Well, i guess the only ones who seem to have a right to be upset, are those countries that don't actually spy on the US.

At least on moral grounds, americans are free game, since they don't seem to care.

**Rocl** · 2013-06-30 15:09

but kuya you are an america

**Plow** · 2013-06-30 15:15

Originally Posted by Kuya

So i guess the general consensus here is that spying on your allies is fine as long as nobody knows you're doing it.

Everybody knows we're doing it, they just don't know how.

It's a requirement in modern global interaction.

Originally Posted by Kuya

Well, i guess the only ones who seem to have a right to be upset, are those countries that don't actually spy on the US.

At least on moral grounds, americans are free game, since they don't seem to care.

Funny since we've been going over this in this thread: just because I think he's a giant shitbag for not actually standing up to defend what he did, and spreading national secrets around the world as payment for travel and protection, doesn't mean I don't think the NSA spying on citizens unreasonably is a bad thing or that it shouldn't have been exposed.

**Xno Kappa** · 2013-06-30 15:46

Germans were kicked off a FOB here recently in Afghanistan for swiping up information classified as Secret from American computers lol.

You're a naive fool if you don't think our allies are doing the same.

**Kuya** · 2013-06-30 16:05

No, if you guys insist, then i'm cool with the argument that everyone does it.

But if that's the stance we're gonna take, we're gonna have to be consistent and say it every time a foreign country does it to the US too.

**Plow** · 2013-06-30 16:09

I'm pretty sure we're all saying we know and accept the fact that others are doing it to us.

We can definitely still want to "win," though.

**Lucavi** · 2013-06-30 16:10

Originally Posted by Kuya

So i guess the general consensus here is that spying on your allies is fine as long as nobody knows you're doing it.

Less that its fine and more that its a reality. It literally just is what it is. Its what the world does. You wanna change it, change humans themselves, which isn't possible while we're the dominant species on the planet.

**Kuya** · 2013-06-30 16:12

Okay then, looks like we have a default response for any spying thread that shows up in the future.

Time to set the traps.

**Plow** · 2013-06-30 16:29

Originally Posted by Kuya

Okay then, looks like we have a default response for any spying thread that shows up in the future.

Time to set the traps.

I'll start!

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/31/te...=pl-share&_r=0

Chinese hackers got caught trying to go all NSA on American news agencies in retaliation for unpleasant reporting about major Chinese government officials.

Where's your thread about that one?

**Plow** · 2013-06-30 16:33

2001: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/02/05/na...pagewanted=all

guy gets caught at los alamos doing pretty much everything you'd ever expect a spy to do, pretty much exactly the hollywood model mr snowden used, get job, steal secrets; gets off with a guilty plea to "intending to hurt the u.s." because they can't prove where he was headed with it and can't find some of it

3 months ago: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...a-bound-plane/

same shit happens cept it's nasa and they actually catch this guy suddenly getting on a flight to China with a 1 way ticket with hidden/undeclared computers/storage media

**Kuya** · 2013-06-30 16:34

Since you caught it before me, why don't you make it? (the thread) It's not as if it doesn't concern you; you're clearly concerned about american geopolitical interests. It's just that the moral questions of spying don't concern you. I'm sure you'll do a great job of reminding everyone that no one should be morally outraged about it.

**Plow** · 2013-06-30 16:43

you're so indifferent to the chinese government doing it to us that you would rather have me of all people make a thread about it, while you're so outraged about our government doing it to other governments that you start new threads about topics there's already a big thread for?

sure is down with murica up in here

**Plow** · 2013-06-30 16:45

also if posting in 2013 about something that's been happening since stealing data meant running off with the punch cards tells you I "caught it" before you, you should really be paying more attention

**Kuya** · 2013-06-30 16:48

Oh. I'm not concerned about america doing it either. You, and a few other posters have convinced me that this is the way things are and it would be terribly unrealistic of me to be upset about it.

So, you've made me indifferent about America or China doing it. I no longer think less of a country for spying on its allies or enemies. And, I, like you, will make sure to remind everyone, in this thread and future threads about spying, that all countries do it, thus on a a moral level, there is no need to be outraged over it.

**Plow** · 2013-06-30 16:54

**Churchill** · 2013-06-30 16:54

Originally Posted by Kuya

Oh. I'm not concerned about america doing it either. You, and a few other posters have convinced me that this is the way things are and it would be terribly unrealistic of me to be upset about it.

So, you've made me indifferent about America or China doing it. I no longer think less of a country for spying on its allies or enemies. And, I, like you, will make sure to remind everyone, in this thread and future threads about spying, that all countries do it, thus on a a moral level, there is no need to be outraged over it.

oh stop being such a passive aggressive little bitch.

that's some shit i'd expect out of cairthenn not you.

**Kuya** · 2013-06-30 16:58

I'm not being passive aggressive at all. I'm just going with the flow.

In fact, we should probably reorient this thread and future threads relating to spying. Instead of talking about moral issues, we should instead discuss whether these specific events benefit or harm American geopolitical interests (or how it helps/harms America's allies and enemies).

**Helm** · 2013-06-30 17:01

I don't think many people were suggesting that it isn't morally reprehensible, just that everyone does it and it blows. I think posting about it is peachy though - it gives me some funny reads. ` -. )

**Tajin** · 2013-06-30 18:30

Originally Posted by Kuya

So i guess the general consensus here is that spying on your allies as long as nobody knows you're doing it.

No it is not fine, neither is the NSA spying on their own country for that matter.
That would be the general consensus of pretty much anything. If you're doing it, do it well and/or don't get caught.

Being surprised about either is naive, but we've been there in the NSA thread so lets stay out of that.

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