Wisconsin passes abortion ban

[Plow]

Ah, I should've known better than to do this ... but alas, I'll spell it out my incredibly obvious implication here for ya:

The point is that in both situations, you can take every possible precaution to avoid the ultimate outcome (pregnancy, cancer), but short of incredibly unreasonable expectations (abstinence, no sunlight), it is impossible to have an absolute 110% level of control over the outcome in all situations (pregnancy, cancer).

In that sense and that sense only, I'm comparing these two situations and how unreasonable it is to make this some sort of oversimplified "you're either responsible and not pregnant, or you're irresponsible and pregnant."


ib4 missing the "that sense only" part

Even if you're on birth control, you're accepting the risk that accompanies having sex. If you're not forced into it, it's a decision you make, and it's my opinion that people should be willing and able (and help should always be available) to carry it to term if it happens. I don't believe I have the right to decide that for other people, but I don't think it should be so terribly offensive to suggest that if you want an abortion you should at least have to make an effort to do it as soon as possible.

[Tagus]

Plow may be acting like an idiot, but you can't really fault him for the adoption argument. There are a metric fuckton of families attempting to adopt in the US right now that would provide excellent homes, but there's a shortage of babies available in the various agencies. My boss, for example, who earns a shitload of money and is a good overall guy, would literally look past a baby being born addicted to drugs at this point because he's been jerked around so much trying to find a baby to adopt.

I'm actually a somewhat good example... my mom was 17 when she got knocked up, and my natural father doesn't know I exist. She put me up for adoption when I was born, and I had a great childhood with two loving parents, have a college education, and now have a decent job and a family with a kid of my own. Coincidentally after doing a bit of sleuthing I found out that I have a half-brother who was raised by my natural mom, and he's in jail for dealing heroin. Apparently they're white trash, and the nature vs. nurture debate seems to be leaning towards nurture in my case.

TBH, I'm pretty happy my mom didn't abort me most days, and adoption was a godsend. I know Senior Plow is acting moronically and all, but there's something to be said for not busting out the vacuum to solve every oopsie.

[AidenCarby]

Guy who should have been aborted, argues against abortions. This thread lol

[Correction]

I don't think it should be so terribly offensive to suggest that if you want an abortion you should at least have to make an effort to do it as soon as possible.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwr...cid=ss6108a1_w

In 2009, most (64.0%) abortions were performed at ≤8 weeks' gestation, and 91.7% were performed at ≤13 weeks' gestation.

I think it's time for you to shut the fuck up about women and personal responsibility.

[archibaldcrane]

Plow literally thinks a woman should drop out of school to carry a baby to term rather than terminate the life of an embryo that is around 1/10th of an inch long (3 weeks after fertilization).

That's how little respect he has for a woman's life.

Hell, here's a 5-week old embryo:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ith_embryo.jpg
It's 1 centimeter long.

Still more valuable than a woman's schooling in Plow's world.

[RKenshin]

You're proposing that a few months of one person's life is inherently more valuable than another person's entire life. I'm quite comfortable proposing the opposite.

Eh?

What kind of ridiculous precedent is that to set?

Under that logic as a law, people could be mandated to undergo monthly blood donations, and/or bone marrow donations, etc. You realize this, right?

[Plow]

The adoption system is shit in the USA and the concept of adoption is stigmatized.

Look, we get it. You don't like abortions. It pulls on emotional heartstrings. However the larger tragedy is having parents raise a child they don't want or a child that is forever seen as a physical/financial/emotion burden on their QoL. You can cry personal responsibility to the moon and it'll be responded to by further treating the little booger like the worthless mistake he/she is in the eyes of the parent.

The foster system is shit, the adoption system is not shit.

Sorry, we had this argument a week ago, you don't get to pretend you're stating facts when I've posted actual facts as well as personal experience when all you're doing is spouting shit you've heard that you don't even realize was actually about a completely different system.

Well, you're clearly trying to give the government more control over their bodies than it currently has.

Sure. I'd love to propose that men and women both should be required to take birth control unless they prove that they're not worthless shits as parents that are going to buy made for kids rifles and ammo for their 5 year olds and let them play with them alone in the bedroom upstairs. Not going to happen, though, but kids would be better off if it did.

[Plow]

Plow literally thinks a woman should drop out of school to carry a baby to term rather than terminate the life of an embryo that is around 1/10th of an inch long (3 weeks after fertilization).

That's how little respect he has for a woman's life.

Hell, here's a 5-week old embryo:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ith_embryo.jpg
It's 1 centimeter long.

Still more valuable than a woman's schooling in Plow's world.

Where did I say a woman should have to drop out of school?

It's pretty interesting how you guys can go from touting how women can get 5-6 months pregnant or even give birth without ever having realized it, yet when it comes to adoption the argument suddenly becomes about how being pregnant ruins your life.

[archibaldcrane]

The foster system is shit, the adoption system is not shit

*for white parents looking to put healthy newborns up for adoption

Completely agreed, for that circumstance the adoption system is great.

[archibaldcrane]

Where did I say a woman should have to drop out of school?

Do you think that all women are capable of remaining in school while carrying a baby to term?

[ronin sparthos]

*for white parents looking to put healthy newborns up for adoption

Completely agreed, for that circumstance the adoption system is great.

Aw, you beat me to it.

[Abandon]

thread is dumb, plow is wrong, fuck the packers.

[Tagus]

Guy who should have been aborted, argues against abortions. This thread lol

lol

I'm just saying... if that shit was legal back in the 70's and 80's, alot of us probably wouldn't be here.

[archibaldcrane]

lol

I'm just saying... if that shit was legal back in the 70's and 80's, alot of us probably wouldn't be here.

holy shit lol

lemme help

Roe v. Wade, 410 U.S. 113 (1973), is a landmark decision by the United States Supreme Court on the issue of abortion.

[Plow]

Eh?

What kind of ridiculous precedent is that to set?

Under that logic as a law, people could be mandated to undergo monthly blood donations, and/or bone marrow donations, etc. You realize this, right?

That's an interesting proposition. I can see the blood donations happening under extreme situations, actually. I don't know if I'd support it or not, I guess I'd have to see what was going on to ask for it.

[Rhinox]

Lmao

[archibaldcrane]

btw, Roe vs. Wade was a 7-2 decision

Abortion is way more controversial now than it was then.

[archibaldcrane]

Lmao

I'm going with "Vampire Apocalypse" scenario.

[hey]

lol

I'm just saying... if that shit was legal back in the 70's and 80's, alot of us probably wouldn't be here.

Amazing.

[Plow]

Do you think that all women are capable of remaining in school while carrying a baby to term?

No, there's tons of variables.

We should definitely be doing everything we can to make pregnancy have as minimal detrimental effect on a woman as we can, though, and that definitely has proven to require steps to reduce the impact on education/work.