Wisconsin passes abortion ban

[Plow]

You said:


Except you're wrong. Pulling out doesn't have a higher fail rate. As a matter of fact, there are studies showing about a 4% fail rate. So unless the fail rate of condoms is astronomically lower (hint, it's about 10%) you're totally incorrect. In addition, spermicide has a failure rate of about 8%. Both are higher than pulling out.

So again, you're wrong. Sorry. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200.

edit: Just in case you needed citations.

Pull-Out Study - This cites condom failure rates as ideal (2%) and typical (17%) as well as pull-out failure right ideal (4%) and typical (27%).

So if you go by the idea of "oh hey take responsibility" and people are responsible while pulling out (fact is, there's a low chance of pregnancy even if you do come in your woman WHILE she's ovulating) then the chance of pregnancy is pretty low.

Let's also not forget that accidents happen. So, in the end, you're wondering what my point was in all of this? It was to illustrate that, once again, you haven't the slightest clue what you're talking about. In fact, I'm quite sure you're going to take the study I just showed you and go "ZOMG BUT TEH TYPICAL RATES".

In that case, I'll ask you to look at the footnote on the first page and ask yourself what 1) a confidence interval is, and 2) statistical significance.

so what you're saying is you're desperately seeking some possible way you might have some way to say I'm wrong, even if it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the actual conversation

i.e. you're still on my nuts


further, condom fail rates are higher than they should be because people use them wrongly, the only way to do it wrong with pulling out is to... not pull out

and they all have way higher fail rates than birth control


but, seriously, if what you want to argue here is condoms vs pulling out, get off my nuts, you're a fucking idiot

[kuronosan]

Okay, whatever dude.

[Psion]

Stop shitting up the thread Plow (and test123!).

Because it can't be said enough. -.-

[Mina]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This thread. I went from pissed to confused to just plain annoyed.

Some people need to be educated on sex and women around here. Look, if you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, don't join the discussion or argument. The rest of you who clearly have slept with/hung around/talked to a woman before I thank you for your contribution.

Fucking telling people that women should get checked for pregnancies based on their period/ovulation dates. Shit.

[Helm]

If you think of Test's posts as being heavily laced with sarcasm it becomes a lot easier to read; At least I tend to believe it's mostly creative trolling rather than the half-thoughts of an addled mind.

[Plow]

Would it really be that terrible to ascribe some level of responsibility?

Like, say to be eligible for an abortion you had to take a bi-monthly pregnancy test.

Fuck, make it a requirement to keep the baby, too.

Wanna have a baby? Prove that you're keeping a good eye on your own body.

Wanna have an abortion? Prove that you're being responsible about sex and babies at all and can catch it before it's far into the process.


Don't want to fuck with birth control, don't want to get regular testing, fucked around and got pregnant? Congratulations to the baby's new adoptive parents.



I realize this is outlandish and would never happen, but tons of people around here would be perfectly cool with requiring a show of responsibility in order to keep a baby, but don't give a fuck about it if you want to kill one.

[Plow]

Spoiler: show

and at least until I wrote this, somebody was going to post about how it's unfair to force a person to carry the baby for adoption; not giving a fuck about the fact that nobody forced them to get pregnant in the first place

and no, I don't look at rape/incest/danger remotely the same way so don't even go that route

[AidenCarby]

Would it really be that terrible to ascribe some level of responsibility?

Like, say to be eligible for an abortion you had to take a bi-monthly pregnancy test.

Fuck, make it a requirement to keep the baby, too.

Wanna have a baby? Prove that you're keeping a good eye on your own body.

Wanna have an abortion? Prove that you're being responsible about sex and babies at all and can catch it before it's far into the process.


Don't want to fuck with birth control, don't want to get regular testing, fucked around and got pregnant? Congratulations to the baby's new adoptive parents.



I realize this is outlandish and would never happen, but tons of people around here would be perfectly cool with requiring a show of responsibility in order to keep a baby, but don't give a fuck about it if you want to kill one.

You can't be serious.

[Helm]

Seriously? Because what we need is unrealistic and unhelpful draconian levels of paternalism.

Also perhaps they don't give a fuck because they don't consider it a baby or they just don't care about something which has never had inklings of sentience. What's the problem?

[BaneTheBrawler]

Wanna get laid? Prove that you've got a stable, well-paying job.

[Mina]

You can't be serious.

I'm latching onto this for dear life. There is no way someone is proposing we go all complete control of people's lives like this.

Fuck everyone's rights.

[ronin sparthos]

Why don't we throw in a reading test to have a child and a road test while we're at it.

[Rhinox]

Wow. Plow taking his usual terribleness up a notch

[Plow]

I'm latching onto this for dear life. There is no way someone is proposing we go all complete control of people's lives like this.

Fuck everyone's rights.

And this is what I figured and expected the response would be.

Forcing people to take responsibility for their actions = taking complete control of their lives and fucking their rights.


You'd make the oil industry proud.

[Niiro]

Wombs are corporations, my friend.

[archibaldcrane]

Getting an abortion IS taking responsibility for your actions. Your action is getting pregnant when you have no desire to carry a child. How is aborting in that situation irresponsible?

[AidenCarby]

And this is what I figured and expected the response would be.

Forcing people to take responsibility for their actions = taking complete control of their lives and fucking their rights.


You'd make the oil industry proud.

You seriously are retarded.

[Mina]

"Forcing people" is what's wrong with your entire statement. People should take responsibility, but forcing the outcome of their child's destiny is fucked up.

[AidenCarby]

Telling women how to facilitate their bodies, reaches an entirely new level of stupid. And forcing bi monthly tests...fucking lol

[ronin sparthos]

And this is what I figured and expected the response would be.

Forcing people to take responsibility for their actions = taking complete control of their lives and fucking their rights.


You'd make the oil industry proud.

It's because you're making things needlessly complicated for no other reason to shove your "responsibility" down the throats of others under the tarp of a bureaucratic machine that'd make Huxley proud. How does an abortion affect you in any way? Who are you to speak for someone else? This isn't some BP-spill tier shit where the actions of a corporation has consequences that result in thousands of people facing negative outcomes (thus the need for tighter regs) so that comparison is moot.

If you want to cut down abortions you address it through education and let people make their own choices. Some people will take the knowledge you give them and still have unplanned babies anyway and if they choose to have an abortion then so be it, that is their choice and they will face whatever personal consequences result from that choice. Personally, if someone can't be arsed to follow a pregnancy to term then there was a good chance that baby was going to be plopped into a shitty situation anyway. Saves them alot of trouble, saves us alot more than that.