Wisconsin passes abortion ban

[Helm]

I expect more dodging from plow on the matter.

[AidenCarby]

I'm personally expecting a wiki reference followed by "I'm not retarded, you are now leave me alone".

[Plow]

"Forcing people" is what's wrong with your entire statement. People should take responsibility, but forcing the outcome of their child's destiny is fucked up.

It's not force when you have a choice. It's responsibility.


Moral of the story: unreasonable conservatives value life right up until the baby is born.

Unreasonable liberals value responsibility only once the baby is conceived.

[Mina]

It's not force when you have a choice. It's responsibility.

Forcing people to take responsibility for their actions = taking complete control of their lives and fucking their rights.

what.

[ronin sparthos]

Illusions of choice that all lead to your desired outcome perhaps.

[Helm]

It's not force when you have a choice. It's responsibility.


Moral of the story: unreasonable conservatives value life right up until the baby is born.

Unreasonable liberals value responsibility only once the baby is conceived.

The problem with the vast majority of things you say is you attempt to set up unrealistic and frankly stupid either/or situations. Having an abortion is not some sort of inherently irresponsible action or necessarily derived from an irresponsible action. Also as some have noted, abortions can be someone's way of taking responsibility for their actions. You may not like it, but the way you're arguing for your position is frankly idiotic.

[Cairthenn]

Not """responsible""" enough to circumvent having a child; now be responsible enough to raise a child.

How endearing.

[Cairthenn]

Read: I care about your fetus but not your child.

[Plow]

It's because you're making things needlessly complicated for no other reason to shove your "responsibility" down the throats of others under the tarp of a bureaucratic machine that'd make Huxley proud. How does an abortion affect you in any way? Who are you to speak for someone else? This isn't some BP-spill tier shit where the actions of a corporation has consequences that result in thousands of people facing negative outcomes (thus the need for tighter regs) so that comparison is moot.

If you want to cut down abortions you address it through education and let people make their own choices. Some people will take the knowledge you give them and still have unplanned babies anyway and if they choose to have an abortion then so be it, that is their choice and they will face whatever personal consequences result from that choice. Personally, if someone can't be arsed to follow a pregnancy to term then there was a good chance that baby was going to be plopped into a shitty situation anyway. Saves them alot of trouble, saves us alot more than that.

I'll go ahead and clarify my personal opinion on abortion.

I don't like it. I wish it wouldn't happen. I don't think it should be banned, because in the end it's a personal value people place on life, and we don't get to decide that for other people here.


That said, I strongly feel people need to take responsibility for their actions when it comes to sex, and if anything is going to be done in terms of regulation, it should be in the direction of enforcing reasonable responsibility. It would sure as fuck be a lot more effective than the slut-shaming and cost-prohibition methods currently being employed.

It would also help to increase knowledge and appreciation for places like planned parenthood which we really need.

[Plow]

Illusions of choice that all lead to your desired outcome perhaps.

my desired outcome is for people to be responsible about sex

the scenario I presented offers the options of not getting pregnant in the first place, getting pregnant and keeping the baby, getting pregnant and aborting the baby, or getting pregnant and going for an adoption


you can keep dropping canned responses all you want, they're not related to what I'm actually talking about

[Mina]

my desired outcome is for people to be responsible about sex

the scenario I presented offers the options of not getting pregnant in the first place, getting pregnant and keeping the baby, getting pregnant and aborting the baby, or getting pregnant and going for an adoption


you can keep dropping canned responses all you want, they're not related to what I'm actually talking about

What makes you think the people who did get pregnant were being irresponsible about sex?

The scenario you presented was to basically force people to take a bi-monthly pregnancy test so that way if in the event they ever were to get pregnant they would either have the ability to even say if they wanted to abort it or keep it.

That's not a "choice" as you call it.

How do you not get that this is crazy?

vvvvv

Would it really be that terrible to ascribe some level of responsibility?

Like, say to be eligible for an abortion you had to take a bi-monthly pregnancy test.

Fuck, make it a requirement to keep the baby, too.

Wanna have a baby? Prove that you're keeping a good eye on your own body.

Wanna have an abortion? Prove that you're being responsible about sex and babies at all and can catch it before it's far into the process.


Don't want to fuck with birth control, don't want to get regular testing, fucked around and got pregnant? Congratulations to the baby's new adoptive parents.

[Helm]

I think people find it somewhat amusing (infuriating?) that you try to argue for better education when you seem to need it yourself.

Also, once again, no one made the argument that abortion is optimal. But for some people it is the most responsible choice they are currently able to make considering their circumstances.

[ringthree]

God damn this thread had been shitted up.

[Plow]

What makes you think the people who did get pregnant were being irresponsible about sex?

The scenario you presented was to basically force people to take a bi-monthly pregnancy test so that way if in the event they ever were to get pregnant they would either have the ability to even say if they wanted to abort it or keep it.

That's not a "choice" as you call it.

How do you not get that this is crazy?

vvvvv

Why is it "crazy" and "not a choice" to state that if you want to raise or kill a baby you have to be doing things that prove you're responsible enough to make the decision and/or care for a child?

[Vandalhart]

further, condom fail rates are higher than they should be because people use them wrongly, the only way to do it wrong with pulling out is to... not pull out

I'm going to ask a stupid question because I'm unfamiliar with the pull out method. The only two times I "pulled out" were accidental as I was shifting positions during the finish and slipped out.

Can there not be problems with the pull out method if you finish directly on or around a woman's genitals?
I realize it's just a matter of.. "oh shut dumbass, maybe aim a little better", but I'm just curious.

[Plow]

Probably no more or less than "precum." Pretty sure pulling out is not an exact science.

[Mina]

The whole part where you said you'd be required to take a test in order to see if you get the eligibility to even make a decision?

That's not called a choice. What's crazy is you can't see that. If you don't get the fact that what you're stating is not a 'choice driven matter' such as:

a) Do I want to have an abortion?
b) Do I want to put my child up for adoption?
c) Do I want to keep the child?

is now...

a) Am I eligible to adopt or keep or abort?... Oh I failed the qualifications of keep/abortion route? Guess I have to have the child and put them up for adoption.

I don't know what the fuck to tell you.

Edit: I'm done with this thread after this. We're just going round and round and you're not seeing the light and I'm not fucking about to change my mind on what the definition of 'choice' is.

Edit2: Your whole hand waving that these are choices is shit. You say you want people to be responsible but you're not giving them the ability to BE responsible. You are forcing them to do as you want. That doesn't make a person fucking responsible. You're just taking their life decisions away and feeding them what you want to be done.

[Plow]

The whole part where you said you'd be required to take a test in order to see if you get the eligibility to even make a decision?

That's not called a choice. What's crazy is you can't see that. If you don't get the fact that what you're stating is not a 'choice driven matter' such as:

a) Do I want to have an abortion?
b) Do I want to put my child up for adoption?
c) Do I want to keep the child?

is now...

a) Am I eligible to adopt or keep or abort?... Oh I failed the qualifications of keep/abortion route? Guess I have to have the child and put them up for adoption.

I don't know what the fuck to tell you.

Edit: I'm done with this thread after this. We're just going round and round and you're not seeing the light and I'm not fucking about to change my mind on what the definition of 'choice' is.

So you've made up your own definition of choice.

You're acting like I'm saying the requirements are "have blonde hair." As long as suggesting you should actually have to plan ahead and take measures to avoid unwanted and especially unknown pregnancies is being a crazy horrible person, you're never going to make any progress.

[Helm]

You certainly like to pick and choose what you respond to, don't you?

[Plow]

I'm not going to argue people's personal beliefs on what abortion is.