Wisconsin passes abortion ban

[Plow]

It's kind of funny if you think about it, really. I'm completely offering up a suggestion where you don't even have to try to not get pregnant, you just have to try to find out if you are on a regular basis to help prevent late term shit, and that makes me a crazy guy talking about biology I don't understand and trying to take complete control of women's bodies.

[hey]

That said, I strongly feel people need to take responsibility for their actions when it comes to sex, and if anything is going to be done in terms of regulation, it should be in the direction of enforcing reasonable responsibility.

Free abortions for everyone!

Because 9 times out of 10, that's the most responsible thing to do.

[Plow]

^
Pretty much my feeling.

I'm in the mood for a metahor, anyone else? Yes? No? You get one anyway:

It would be like calling the guy that wears SPF100 every day, avoids being in the sun for prolonged periods, and doesn't tan/use booths/etc but still develops skin cancer irresponsible.

Sure, that person could've lived in a fucking shaded bubble their entire lives and never exposed themselves to any sunlight whatsoever, but what the hell kind of a realistic expectation is that? Just like it isn't realistic to force or even 'ask/suggest' that people don't ever have and/or severely restrict their sex lives.

Sure, if getting cancer was a conscious decision that killed someone else to save you some trouble.

[ronin sparthos]

If you believe that abortion is an emergency backup last resort, then yes, having an abortion is the result of irresponsibility. This is not a hard concept to grasp, even if you disagree.

So if you get raped you were irresponsible?
So if you have sex with a guy, get pregnant then realize he's bailed you're irresponsible if you terminate?
So if you get pregnant by accident you were irresponsible?
So if you're broke and can barely sustain yourself nevermind a child you're irresponsible?

Look, in your world you may have clear cut definitions of what is irresponsible and responsible behavior but within the sphere of producing and rearing offspring the decision (to keep/terminate) ultimately comes down to the woman growing the baby inside her and if she chooses to have an abortion every month until her uterus falls out then so be it. It doesn't concern you the same way that someone having sex with a blowup doll doesn't concern you.

It's her body, her decision and ultimately the last thing that needed is some blowhard demanding you raise the baby CAUSE YOU GOTTA TAKE RESPONSIBILITY HERP or JESUS SAID SO because both lead to shitty results where people halfass the results and we're all stuck dealing with it.

If you don't want a baby then yes, we should leave the option for you to abort there. If you want to take getting raped as a message from the gods then so be it. Choice. Fucking choice. It's yours.

[ringthree]

It's kind of funny if you think about it, really. I'm completely offering up a suggestion where you don't even have to try to not get pregnant, you just have to try to find out if you are on a regular basis to help prevent late term shit, and that makes me a crazy guy talking about biology I don't understand and trying to take complete control of women's bodies.

God fucking damn it, just shut the fuck up.

You are making no sense, at all.

[Plow]

So if you get raped you were irresponsible?
So if you have sex with a guy, get pregnant then realize he's bailed you're irresponsible if you terminate?
So if you get pregnant by accident you were irresponsible?
So if you're broke and can barely sustain yourself nevermind a child you're irresponsible?

Look, in your world you may have clear cut definitions of what is irresponsible and responsible behavior but within the sphere of producing and rearing offspring the decision (to keep/terminate) ultimately comes down to the woman growing the baby inside her and if she chooses to have an abortion every month until her uterus falls out then so be it. It doesn't concern you the same way that someone having sex with a blowup doll doesn't concern you.

It's her body, her decision and ultimately the last thing that needed is some blowhard demanding you raise the baby CAUSE YOU GOTTA TAKE RESPONSIBILITY HERP or JESUS SAID SO because both lead to shitty results where people halfass the results and we're all stuck dealing with it.

If you don't want a baby then yes, we should leave the option for you to abort there. If you want to take getting raped as a message from the gods then so be it. Choice. Fucking choice. It's yours.

Ah, yes, the good old "adoption doesn't exist" argument.

And rape is a different story.

[Correction]

It's kind of funny if you think about it, really. I'm completely offering up a suggestion where you don't even have to try to not get pregnant, you just have to try to find out if you are on a regular basis to help prevent late term shit, and that makes me a crazy guy talking about biology I don't understand and trying to take complete control of women's bodies.

You want sexually active women to take pregnancy tests every week for several months after every sexual encounter. All this to meet the bare minimum of what you call personal responsibility and avoid you 'tut tut'ing at them when they end up at Planned Parenthood.
Yeah I wonder where people got the crazed notion that you want control over women's bodies.

[Plow]

You want sexually active women to take pregnancy tests every week for several months after every sexual encounter.
Yeah I wonder where people got the crazed notion that you want control over women's bodies.

No straw manning going on here, guys.

[Plow]

That should get a medal or something, I don't think I've ever seen such a blatant lie of a ridiculous just absolutely textbook definition of a straw man.

[Correction]

No straw manning going on here, guys.

You said this

you just have to try to find out if you are [pregnant] on a regular basis

It's not straw manning when it's a direct quote.

[Plow]

"on a regular basis" definitely means "every week for months after every sexual encounter," not the "pee in a cup 6 times a year" I specified


seriously fuck off if you're just going to outright lie about what I said minutes after I say it

[archibaldcrane]

I don't believe it took you 7 minutes to write that post, so I'm gonna go with "reading is fundamental."

So dropping out of school to have a baby to put up for adoption is more responsible than having a 3rd-week RU486 abortion?

Statements like "just have birth and put it up for adoption - it's the most responsible thing to do" without even acknowledging the manner in which spending 9 months pregnant can really screw with someone's life (especially in America where people have to provide for their own medical care/insurance financially and there is no paid maternity leave) is ridiculous.

[RKenshin]

Sure, if getting cancer was a conscious decision that killed someone else to save you some trouble.

Ah, I should've known better than to do this ... but alas, I'll spell it out my incredibly obvious implication here for ya:

The point is that in both situations, you can take every possible precaution to avoid the ultimate outcome (pregnancy, cancer), but short of incredibly unreasonable expectations (abstinence, no sunlight), it is impossible to have an absolute 110% level of control over the outcome in all situations (pregnancy, cancer).

In that sense and that sense only, I'm comparing these two situations and how unreasonable it is to make this some sort of oversimplified "you're either responsible and not pregnant, or you're irresponsible and pregnant."


ib4 missing the "that sense only" part

[Plow]

So dropping out of school to have a baby to put up for adoption is more responsible than having a 3rd-week RU486 abortion?

Statements like "just have birth and put it up for adoption - it's the most responsible thing to do" without even acknowledging the manner in which spending 9 months pregnant can really screw with someone's life (especially in America where people have to provide for their own medical care/insurance financially and there is no paid maternity leave) is ridiculous.

You're proposing that a few months of one person's life is inherently more valuable than another person's entire life. I'm quite comfortable proposing the opposite.

[ronin sparthos]

Ah, yes, the good old "adoption doesn't exist" argument.

And rape is a different story.

The adoption system is shit in the USA and the concept of adoption is stigmatized.

Look, we get it. You don't like abortions. It pulls on emotional heartstrings. However the larger tragedy is having parents raise a child they don't want or a child that is forever seen as a physical/financial/emotion burden on their QoL. You can cry personal responsibility to the moon and it'll be responded to by further treating the little booger like the worthless mistake he/she is in the eyes of the parent.

[archibaldcrane]

It's kind of funny if you think about it, really. I'm completely offering up a suggestion where you don't even have to try to not get pregnant, you just have to try to find out if you are on a regular basis to help prevent late term shit, and that makes me a crazy guy talking about biology I don't understand and trying to take complete control of women's bodies.

Well, you're clearly trying to give the government more control over their bodies than it currently has.

[Correction]

"on a regular basis" definitely means "every week for months after every sexual encounter," not the "pee in a cup 6 times a year" I specified


seriously fuck off if you're just going to outright lie about what I said minutes after I say it

Ok instead of every week, sexually active women must pee in a cup every two months to be Plow Responsible™

Nope, no takeover of women's reproductive rights going on here, nope.

btw you still haven't demonstrated how 800,000 women in 2008 were irresponsible beyond the Mister Mackey 'abortions r bad mkay' handwaving you've been on about for 150 posts.

[archibaldcrane]

You're proposing that a few months of one person's life is inherently more valuable than another person's entire life.

Yep.

And the Supreme Court agrees with me.

[hey]

You're proposing that a few months of one person's life is inherently more valuable than another person's entire life. I'm quite comfortable proposing the opposite.

By a factor of at least 1000. Especially when the one "person" isn't really a person.

[Helm]

Come on guys, why won't you think of the happiness of a single potential person?