Translated Gear: Take these for granite

[Raelia]

Not like it'd matter a whole lot even if you did. It'll help bored NIN/THF/BLU/DNCs solo stuff better-er? It'd be nice, but not being useless jobs would be nicer.

Dual axes RUN/NIN? Are they on the axes?

This is a pre-coffee idea...

[dasva]

Dual axes RUN/NIN? Are they on the axes?

This is a pre-coffee idea...

Run was on alot of the early soa axes making that best for awhile but I don't think they've gotten anything better than Aalak' Axe

[Asymptotic]

I'd be extremely surprised if we weren't taking full advantage of every bit of accuracy/attack we'll have come time for new Delve. Don't even joke about the shock spikes, though '~'

Semi-related, but also predicting higher airlixir requirements/higher plasm costs on new equipment. I don't see them sitting content with everyone unlocking the new array of equipment from the NPC and going back to Tojil to get it all

Unless they pump up the stats of Tojil and friends, I
I would not expect the new Delve bosses to be any stronger as they are intended for the same content level. The lesser NMs are intended to be stronger than our current 1-5 so bead farming may end up necessary. ..or not.

They have also said they might not make delve 2 use the same plasm currency, and since I don't think 6 NM runs were intended to be so widespread I would be surprised if they stick with it.

[dasva]

I always thought the idea was for the top linkshells to just be able to kill without beads and the rest of us would have to bead farm... basically letting any decent group do it but the better people can spam like crazy while the rest go slowly.

That said it didn't really work out that work out that way. Rng pld method aside you generally killing boss based on stuns so buying tons of extra time isn't all that helpful right now. I mean if you can kill the boss in <10 minutes chances are as long as you don't fuck up you can kill lessers in averages of 7 min each. Wonder if new delve will differ (I have a feeling Yorica is going to be a pain regardless though)

[Raelia]

Run was on alot of the early soa axes making that best for awhile but I don't think they've gotten anything better than Aalak' Axe

Yeah, didn't look til later. Why even give them Axe skill if they don't see any past 99? It's like someone had nostalgia for DRK/NIN Rampage and couldn't think of any other weapon to give them.

What would be neat: Parry is changed to work like shield blocks, using base damage of the weapon for damage reduction and higher delay = less block rate. RUN might actually work then...

[Slycer]

Unless they pump up the stats of Tojil and friends, I
I would not expect the new Delve bosses to be any stronger as they are intended for the same content level.

I don't believe this was ever stated outright. If I'm correct that it wasn't, I would actually believe the contrary to be true, seeing as Yumcax and Hurkan are a full nine content levels higher than Achuka, Tchakka, and Colkhab. Assuming they keep the same method of having essentially upgraded Naakual drops coming from Delve bosses, the four content level difference between 16 and 20 would not leave a whole lot of room for improvement relative to the huge 13 level jump from the original Naakuals to current Delve bosses.

[Damane]

Unless they pump up the stats of Tojil and friends, I
I would not expect the new Delve bosses to be any stronger as they are intended for the same content level. The lesser NMs are intended to be stronger than our current 1-5 so bead farming may end up necessary. ..or not.

They have also said they might not make delve 2 use the same plasm currency, and since I don't think 6 NM runs were intended to be so widespread I would be surprised if they stick with it.

ecxept that the new wildskeeper bosses seem to be alot more resistent to magic debuffs (generally anything) + the fact that fodder reive mob in there has like insane high evasion, i bet delve 2.0 will require accuracy gear. While delve 2.0 prolly will push out the same equipment lvl (as in 119 or 120) the mobs/bosses will be much harder. I expect a rise of equipment lvl beyond lvl 120 after delve 2.0.

[Fake]

I don't remember SE ever stating that Delve would cap out at iLevel 120.

Tojil etc do fall in line with current gears ability quite well, after the update we get +220~ acc/attack. Stands to reason that the new fractures will be aimed at people who have cleared the existing delve content, as SE has been fairly explicit with how the vertical gear/monster system is supposed to work.

[Morari]

I don't remember SE ever stating that Delve would cap out at iLevel 120.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post445881

It may not say "delve caps out at ilevel 120" but it surely does imply it. (Then again, it does seem to imply as well this is only true up to April 2013)

[dasva]

The problem with the various charts they have lined up is the later ones actually seperate skirmish/reive 1 and 2 while there is no such distinguishment for Delve. You could take that to mean there is no need because it is the same. And the idea of keeping the "best" weapons of each type on the same ilvl would sorta support that. And you know how they love barance. On the other hand you could just take it to mean that like how the one you just posted doesn't have the seperation they don't have delve seperated because they haven't really planned delve 2 out completely yet so it doesn't have a set ilvl. And them wanting to keep with the whole pregression theme and delve being the highest tier content and them holding off on delve 2 to get more lateral content in would poke at delve being even higher.

tl;dr hard to say either way we will see in december

[arus2001]

can we let DRK casting die pls, everytime someone brings it up i have to faceplam, SE has tried to get DRKs to cast a dozen of times, it doesnt work ecxept for those times where they sleep an add or so because the group has splitt up or whatever (75 nyzul isle NNI etc).
There are things in much dire need then giving DRKs an incentiv to cast spells.

Given the age of the issue, when is the right time? Your frustration about the topic and even the inverse for RDM based on other topics here and in the OF is noted, but just sweeping it under the rug with the generic claim there are bigger fish to fry is exactly why people just keep bringing it up. It's not really any different than THFs wanting Steal/Despoil to be better or pet jobs wanting more from their pets. They're job theme/performance issues, and if addressed properly, could help broaden the depth of endgame a bit.

[JSHidaka]

If current delve boss isn't the cap in ilvl, the problem will be that just few jobs will be able to hit that ilvl, like is now that just drg, mnk, bst, rng, sam, thf/dnc (and w/e other job I did miss from the weapons boss drops)

I thought WKR where a "weak" counterpart of delve loot, but now with what they did with the bst axe again... No idea

[Malithar]

If current delve boss isn't the cap in ilvl, the problem will be that just few jobs will be able to hit that ilvl, like is now that just drg, mnk, bst, rng, sam, thf/dnc (and w/e other job I did miss from the weapons boss drops)

I thought WKR where a "weak" counterpart of delve loot, but now with what they did with the bst axe again... No idea

Considering its like that now, I don't see how anyone can view it as being a problem, SE included. Complete random conjecture, but very little doubt in my mind that the next tier of Delve weapons won't be ilvl 124-129, with crafting mats being used to make weapons that are -1 ilvl weaker then the dropped weapons, thus making Delve 1 outclassed, and just another tier in their system of progression. Whether anyone will ever do Delve 1 again (specifically if they use another type of currency for Delve 2) after that progression happens, who's to say, but if the outclassing of Skirmish, old WKRs, etc are any indication, I doubt it.

[Alistrianna]

I thought SE said that the new Delve content would be harder and require the gear from the Mega bosses in order to defeat it anyway. Since they are making the Delve bosses somewhat easier for people to kill with fewer buffs in the next update, it wouldn't be farfetched to assume that the new content will start out with bosses harder than the existing ones.

[JSHidaka]

Considering its like that now, I don't see how anyone can view it as being a problem, SE included. Complete random conjecture, but very little doubt in my mind that the next tier of Delve weapons won't be ilvl 124-129, with crafting mats being used to make weapons that are -1 ilvl weaker then the dropped weapons, thus making Delve 1 outclassed, and just another tier in their system of progression. Whether anyone will ever do Delve 1 again (specifically if they use another type of currency for Delve 2) after that progression happens, who's to say, but if the outclassing of Skirmish, old WKRs, etc are any indication, I doubt it.

So you think is right that just few jobs get top ilvl weapons? If they introduce next delve before next WKR just war, drk(scythe), lolbst, and the wkr club users will have max ilvl weapon (of course if like you think, they increase new delve boss to 129)

So the balance will be whenever they decide to revamp REM that everyone will at least have access to relics 99

[Malithar]

So you think is right that just few jobs get top ilvl weapons? If they introduce next delve before next WKR just war, drk(scythe), lolbst, and the wkr club users will have max ilvl weapon (of course if like you think, they increase new delve boss to 129)

So the balance will be whenever they decide to revamp REM that everyone will at least have access to relics 99

Its no different then now. You said it yourself, Sam, Bst, War (w/ axe) Dnc, Thf, Brd, Drg, Mnk, Pup, Rng (w/ crossbow), Blu, Pld, and Rdm have access to higher ilvl weapons now then the other classes. Doesn't mean that things like Senbaak Drk aren't desired, just like next tier all of those jobs will still be desired cause they'll have a damn solid crafted piece a tad bit weaker then the boss drops.

Is it really that hard to believe that such a situation would occur, when it's the reality we're in right now? Sure, its a larger job spread atm, but I doubt SE really cares about that, I know most players sure don't. Everyone's going to get their turn in the "highest ilvl weapon" heap, and it won't really change how we build alliances or do things. Shit, for a month War just had more acc/att then any other job could muster, and I didn't see things change to OMG WAR ONRY. You act as though there's some sort of loss of balance, when there's no balance to begin with.

Will be the same thing once Delve 3 hits and we see Nin, Drk, Run, Cor, and a badass staff come out that trumps everything prior. Is that difficult to believe?

[Alistrianna]

That's the problem I foresee with their item level system. What happens once Delve is finished? It's Lv.120 content, and after we get the gear we're effectively Lv.119. In order to take the game forward at that point, assuming they are thinking that far ahead, means that newer content is going to have to be higher level. To make us stronger they will have to introduce higher level content and higher level gear. If they have done the R/E/M updates by then, all of the people that waited for that to happen are going to QQ again because their newer R/E/M weapons they waited to get might get outclassed by yet another tier of higher Item Level weapons.

[JSHidaka]

Its no different then now. You said it yourself, Sam, Bst, War (w/ axe) Dnc, Thf, Brd, Drg, Mnk, Pup, Rng (w/ crossbow), Blu, Pld, and Rdm have access to higher ilvl weapons now then the other classes. Doesn't mean that things like Senbaak Drk aren't desired, just like next tier all of those jobs will still be desired cause they'll have a damn solid crafted piece a tad bit weaker then the boss drops.

Is it really that hard to believe that such a situation would occur, when it's the reality we're in right now? Sure, its a larger job spread atm, but I doubt SE really cares about that, I know most players sure don't. Everyone's going to get their turn in the "highest ilvl weapon" heap, and it won't really change how we build alliances or do things. Shit, for a month War just had more acc/att then any other job could muster, and I didn't see things change to OMG WAR ONRY. You act as though there's some sort of loss of balance, when there's no balance to begin with.

Will be the same thing once Delve 3 hits and we see Nin, Drk, Run, Cor, and a badass staff come out that trumps everything prior. Is that difficult to believe?

Cor?.... W/e

You act like this game will last forever, they have so much limitations coz poor design.

In this game gear level never mattered till "today"(mostly for every job but healers and bard), where you could keep using old lv75 gear @ lv99 coz they were still good stats wise, after Monday all the gear(weapons, head,body,legs,hands,feets) w/o ilvl on it will be useless or just "replaced" forever, you can say that a Thaumas user will never stop using body, probably coz ATM they are only 2 choices, bayldivl100 and plams ilvl110, but eventually all will be gone, coz you will need the ilvl over the stats for "end game" (if you haven't try test server, will understand why, after next update)

Idc if they keep raising ilvl with each delve they add, but every time they decide to raise it, harder will be, and they will have to keep adding easy high level gear for the ppl that never caught the train, like they will be doing with next skirmish, that gear will be same or little better than plams gear, and +1 skirmish weapons between plams and new WKR, and all these changes just to close the gap between lv99 and lv120.

That's the problem I foresee with their item level system. What happens once Delve is finished? It's Lv.120 content, and after we get the gear we're effectively Lv.119. In order to take the game forward at that point, assuming they are thinking that far ahead, means that newer content is going to have to be higher level. To make us stronger they will have to introduce higher level content and higher level gear. If they have done the R/E/M updates by then, all of the people that waited for that to happen are going to QQ again because their newer R/E/M weapons they waited to get might get outclassed by yet another tier of higher Item Level weapons.

Probably that's the reason they haven't upgrade REM's, and one of the reasons I don't think they will raise it over 120.

[Malithar]

Cor?.... W/e

You act like this game will last forever, they have so much limitations coz poor design.

What makes you think there won't be a gun?

And its not that this game will last forever, but they have a very obvious tier progression system in place. Regardless if it lasts forever (which I don't think it will) or not, wtf makes you think that the topic at hand (further implementations of Delve) won't continue until its done? Delve 2 (as far as we know) will be Yorcia Weald and Marjami Ravine, unless they add the other areas prior to doing Delve 2. If not, Delve 3 would more then likely comprise the next two areas (Peidmont and whatever the other they add is). Sure, they're limited in the things that they're capable of, but you're just poking holes in what they little they've done in the past, compared to what they've done in the past 4 months of this expansion being out.

The fact that they're finally moving on from content approaching a decade old is fine, IMO. I'm glad they're moving on with the game. And the fact that they're introducing midground content for people to easily catch up with is good. People falling behind is an easy way to kill any motivation for people to play this game, beyond the lifers that are at/near the top tier. Those same types of players will continue to use older gear in ways that it benefits them the most. Some NNI, Salvage +1, HQ abjuration, etc, will continue to be useful, if only as sub in pieces eventually. To say that its all dead is quite a far cry from the reality though, unless def, eva, meva, and a bunch of extra useless stats (not that all of them aren't useful) is suddenly mandatory for everyone to survive things, which atm, its ont.

[Alistaire]

Given the age of the issue, when is the right time? Your frustration about the topic and even the inverse for RDM based on other topics here and in the OF is noted, but just sweeping it under the rug with the generic claim there are bigger fish to fry is exactly why people just keep bringing it up. It's not really any different than THFs wanting Steal/Despoil to be better or pet jobs wanting more from their pets. They're job theme/performance issues, and if addressed properly, could help broaden the depth of endgame a bit.

There's certainly a place for drk casting vs some delve nq mobs, mainly absorb-attri vs things like cocoon & scutum where you may not have someone ready to finale it right there. Absorb-str will overwrite str down from beetles (but sadly not from bugards). Pulling with absorb-acc or drains as well.