Pope on gays: "Who am I to judge?"

[Ksandra]

I think its in there somewhere? Honestly not 100% sure but that's how I always viewed it. Thinking "I wanna kill that guy" and stabbing someone 40x with a pencil are different things in terms of sin lol

Ya. It should be noted though that if you dwell on the idea it could be considered a sin (but obviously not as worse a sin as doing the act).

Good talk on temptation by Bishop Fulton Sheen:

[Meresgi]

Thoughts aren't sin?

Matthew 5:27-28
"But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

7th Commandment, Exodus 20:14
"You shall not commit adultery.

And? I can see how you are trying to draw a line between the two, but doesn't work for me so sorry. That quote to me is basically just saying "If you're already thinking about banging that guys wife, you've taken the 1st step to fucksville USA"

[Ddz]

From the vatican catechism: "Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God's law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin."

"Sins can be distinguished according to their objects, as can every human act; or according to the virtues they oppose, by excess or defect; or according to the commandments they violate. They can also be classed according to whether they concern God, neighbor, or oneself; they can be divided into spiritual and carnal sins, or again as sins in thought, word, deed, or omission. The root of sin is in the heart of man, in his free will, according to the teaching of the Lord: "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a man."128 But in the heart also resides charity, the source of the good and pure works, which sin wounds."

This means you should confess evil thoughts, but thoughts are not considered to be as grave an offense as an act. The more you know.

Some verses that are close, I think:
James 4:17
So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

1 Corinthians 10:13
No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.

[ronin sparthos]

And? I can see how you are trying to draw a line between the two, but doesn't work for me so sorry. That quote to me is basically just saying "If you're already thinking about banging that guys wife, you've taken the 1st step to fucksville USA"

Thinking about fucking someone elses wife doesn't mean you're going to do it. It's a thought. One of many that swirl around the human conscious. Some are impulse, others are long-term. The idea of equating 'thinking about' with 'executing the action' is nonsense.

[ringthree]

Thoughts aren't sin?

Matthew 5:27-28
"But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

7th Commandment, Exodus 20:14
"You shall not commit adultery.

Sin is defined specifically as an act. Temptation is in thought. You can turn away from passing temptation without committing sin. While there are citations that can be connected to create sin through thought (as you just did) they require connecting chapters that are vastly separate in both biblical definition and creation (old vs. new testament). What does it mean that you have committed adultery in your heart? That is not defined, and definitely not so just by quoting a commandment.

A lot of this is up for interpretation though. Clergy interpretation and personal interpretation. And I think we have gone a bit off track.

[Blubbartron]

Yeah, you are the kind of person that gives atheism a bad name.

My bad, would you prefer it if all atheists were absolutely silent while Christians feel they have the right to proselytize to anyone and everyone about how awesome Jesus is?

Also, itt people discussing "sin" like it's an actual thing. Many lulz.

[Ddz]

Thinking about fucking someone elses wife doesn't mean you're going to do it. It's a thought. One of many that swirl around the human conscious. Some are impulse, others are long-term. The idea of equating 'thinking about' with 'executing the action' is nonsense.

Right. If I was having impure thoughts about some other dude that wasn't my husband, I'd definitely confess those thoughts.

[Meresgi]

Thinking about fucking someone elses wife doesn't mean you're going to do it. It's a thought. One of many that swirl around the human conscious. Some are impulse, others are long-term. The idea of equating 'thinking about' with 'executing the action' is nonsense.

Do you think about shit before you do it? The answer is probably "yes" unless you're cakeloving mental crazy and just do things at random without thought. and I don't think it's talking about a casual "id totally do her" thought. Its more along the lines of "Ok I really wanna do her..how am I gonna go about doing this and getting it done". When you start planning out the act in your head, then it's worse.

[Ksandra]

My bad, would you prefer it if all atheists were absolutely silent while Christians feel they have the right to proselytize to anyone and everyone about how awesome Jesus is?

Also, itt people discussing "sin" like it's an actual thing. Many lulz.

And i respect that. Evangelism is borderline harassment. And i know from experience that you're never gonna convince a pissed off atheist to simmer down by telling them to respect religion. No, you're gonna get the exact opposite reaction. In those instances, it's best to just let the rage subside on its own.

Hey look, someone Kuya was talking about.

Best ignore, he won't add any value to the discussion and won't learn anything.

[Ksandra]

Do you think about shit before you do it? The answer is probably "yes" unless you're cakeloving mental crazy and just do things at random without thought. and I don't think it's talking about a casual "id totally do her" thought. Its more along the lines of "Ok I really wanna do her..how am I gonna go about doing this and getting it done". When you start planning out the act in your head, then it's worse.

To kinda clarify:

Walking down the street, seeing you're neighbor's wife and think, "hey she's pretty fucking hot." = not a sin

Spending everyday thinking of ways to get said hot neighbor's wife=sin of temptation

actually sleeping with neighbor's wife= sinful act (worse than sin of temptation)

[Ddz]

My bad, would you prefer it if all atheists were absolutely silent while Christians feel they have the right to proselytize to anyone and everyone about how awesome Jesus is?

Also, itt people discussing "sin" like it's an actual thing. Many lulz.

Everyone has different beliefs, dude. Just take it as an opportunity to learn about what somebody else thinks. Everyone here is welcoming the other's opinions.

[ronin sparthos]

Sin is defined specifically as an act. Temptation is in thought. You can turn away from passing temptation without committing sin. While there are citations that can be connected to create sin through thought (as you just did) they require connecting chapters that are vastly separate in both biblical definition and creation (old vs. new testament). What does it mean that you have committed adultery in your heart? That is not defined, and definitely not so just by quoting a commandment.

A lot of this is up for interpretation though. Clergy interpretation and personal interpretation. And I think we have gone a bit off track.

Because the Bible is left up to the interpretation of the individual you can arrive at wildly different conclusions based on how you digest the text. No one has the right answer and so this wheel will spin 'round and 'round with the 'true' interpretation. I admire the works of theologians trying to make sense through their social context but the debate is academic and the entire thing largely opinion based on who you choose to side with.

[Ksandra]

Because the Bible is left up to the interpretation of the individual you can arrive at wildly different conclusions based on how you digest the text. No one has the right answer and so this wheel will spin 'round and 'round with the 'true' interpretation. I admire the works of theologians trying to make sense through their social context but the debate is academic and the entire thing largely opinion based on who you choose to side with.

I think ring3 means the catechism specifically defines it as an act.

Most of us here are talking about the Catholic interpretations, where you seem to want to insist on the general christian ideas.

[ronin sparthos]

Do you think about shit before you do it? The answer is probably "yes" unless you're cakeloving mental crazy and just do things at random without thought. and I don't think it's talking about a casual "id totally do her" thought. Its more along the lines of "Ok I really wanna do her..how am I gonna go about doing this and getting it done". When you start planning out the act in your head, then it's worse.

Because the Bible is left up to the interpretation of the individual you can arrive at wildly different conclusions based on how you digest the text.

As far as the base text is concerned there is no distinction.

[Lucavi]

I didn't do it on person, but yeah, this just confirms my theory: anyone can find a quote in the Bible to justify roughly anything. Thank you guys for the actual quotes.

[ronin sparthos]

I think ring3 means the catechism specifically defines it as an act.

Most of us here are talking about the Catholic interpretations, where you seem to want to insist on the general christian ideas.

Fair enough, though the Bible is still being interpreted through a Catholic viewpoint that has been made up of theologians and priests who have ordered things the way they saw fit. Of course you could simply say 'divine inspiration' and I'll respond with 'to each his own'.

The base text is ambiguous.

[Ddz]

I have questions all the time. I just talk to a priest or have a discussion. At least for me, faith is a continuous learning process.

[Ksandra]

Because the Bible is left up to the interpretation of the individual you can arrive at wildly different conclusions based on how you digest the text.

As far as the base text is concerned there is no distinction.

Again, we're talking about Catholic interpretations, not what all christians or individuals interpret.

[edit] sorry posted before getting to see your response

[Meresgi]

Because the Bible is left up to the interpretation of the individual you can arrive at wildly different conclusions based on how you digest the text. No one has the right answer and so this wheel will spin 'round and 'round with the 'true' interpretation. I admire the works of theologians trying to make sense through their social context but the debate is academic and the entire thing largely opinion based on who you choose to side with.

Ive always belived that religious sects should be a foundation of faith and then you go from there and personally look for more core values/beliefs. Ive always identified myself as "christian" but anyone who knows me is surprised by that because my values/beliefs are a mix of many different religions and I don't believe any one religion to honestly be wrong on anything.

[Jaybar]

Just to clarify - while any individual can interpret the Bible their own way, that should not be taken with serious action. It is up to studied theologians to interpret the Bible and for the individual to align themselves with their ideas. You like the interpretation and implementation of Baptist thought? Catholicism? Lutheran? Orthodox?

Then you delve into hermeneutics and you get some very interesting views on Bible interpretation. I lean towards the narrative perspective. You might find a lot of the Protestant conservative sects lean towards a historical/literal perspective. Hermeneutics are probably the first place you should look before you approach interpreting the Bible.