Optimal Armor Sets Discussion/Compendium(Last update: Aug 10th, 2013)

[Fake]

Part of the problem with coming up with "optimal sets" is determining a reasonable baseline of buffs.

My entire point was to create a base set (i.e. the one aready up there) and give an order of how accuracy should be swapped in. There is no point trying to make seperate sets for groups that use 4-8 songs and 2-4 rolls.

Just stacking the max accuracy gear the job can wear isn't a useful reference because some pieces will reduce DPS by 3-5 points when acc is capped, others will reduce it by up to ~50.


Also these gear sets that use unhasted DPS numbers are next to useless, because the amount of gear haste needed to cap when you have capped magic haste isn't capped gear haste (not just on mnk but other jobs)

[Fwahm]

While maximal accuracy sets are useless (at least until next patch), I'd argue that un-maximally hasted sets are valuable, since there is content in this game that you won't always have a bard on, but will still want to have good performance with.

[Fake]

Except the set I'm taking issue with, apart from being completely fucking horrible as a functioning set with current content, lists Tojil as a target. Who is going to be fighting tojil without a bard

[Francisco]

My entire point was to create a base set (i.e. the one aready up there) and give an order of how accuracy should be swapped in. There is no point trying to make seperate sets for groups that use 4-8 songs and 2-4 rolls.

Just stacking the max accuracy gear the job can wear isn't a useful reference because some pieces will reduce DPS by 3-5 points when acc is capped, others will reduce it by up to ~50.


Also these gear sets that use unhasted DPS numbers are next to useless, because the amount of gear haste needed to cap when you have capped magic haste isn't capped gear haste (not just on mnk but other jobs)

The base sets for Tojil should be the one in my more recent post. There are three options there, depending on weapon (because most people don't have Oatixur, and if you don't have at least Rigors, you shouldn't be fighting Tojil). Also, they're all assuming WHM haste and double march and double madrigal.

Stacking accuracy in sets may be useless, but with Oatixur and RCB, you're going to want to use Honed Tathlum and Letalis Mantle regardless of buffs. If for some reason you're not getting Madrigal or Focus, then worry about lesser desired accuracy swaps (belt, ring, neck, etc).

Hunter's Roll should also be irrelevant to this discussion, unless you have 5 Corsairs (or aren't getting Madrigals)... With Hunter's Roll, all it really frees you up to do is use Potestas and Atheling instead of Letalis and Honed, a net of 30 Attack. Fighter, Rogue and Tactician's Rolls are all more effective, and Chaos Roll will almost certainly wind up giving you more than 30 attack anyway...

[Fake]

I'm not arguing any of the gear you have posted, its the approach being taken toward this entire thread. Post several baseline gear sets aimed at specific content/weapon and then provide an order in which gear should be swapped in/out for more/less accuracy depending on an individuals needs.

Stop using unhasted DPS numbers for stuff where you will be capped haste (delve stuff) because even if it doesn't affect the gear in the specific set you post, it may do in others and it sets a bad precedent.

[Francisco]

Stop using unhasted DPS numbers for stuff where you will be capped haste (delve stuff) because even if it doesn't affect the gear in the specific set you post, it may do in others and it sets a bad precedent.

Not sure if this is directed at me, but you make it sound like it is, so I'll reiterate: The DPS numbers I posted are all with Haste and double march.

[Fake]

How are you getting DPS numbers of 250-300 then.

[Francisco]

How are you getting DPS numbers of 250-300 then.

I was looking at the melee attack DPS numbers, exclusive of weaponskills, since that's another set entirely, that we weren't really discussing.

With a "typical" SS set and Oatixur/RCB, the numbers are more liker 380-400 DPS, depending on which JA buffs are up.

[Fake]

You're doing Tojil wrong if you're hitting as low as 400 even with rigors (after the update at least). Sounds like you aren't using realistic buffs for a boss fight, which invalidates it just as much as using unhasted DPS numbers would.

I'm getting numbers well over 500 using Rigor, only 4 songs and 2 rolls, the difference is I'm actually doing it with relevant debuffs/JAs.

[urat]

You're doing Tojil wrong if you're hitting as low as 400 even with rigors (after the update at least). Sounds like you aren't using realistic buffs for a boss fight, which invalidates it just as much as using unhasted DPS numbers would.

I'm getting numbers well over 500 using Rigor, only 4 songs and 2 rolls, the difference is I'm actually doing it with relevant debuffs/JAs.

What are your exact buffs you have on the sheet? We are using double march, haste, impetus+focus or berserk+Agressor.

[Fake]

What are your exact buffs you have on the sheet? We are using double march, haste, impetus+focus or berserk+Agressor.

Those are completely ridiculous buffs for Tojil.

Haste, Soul Voice March, Minuet 5+4, Madrigal 2, Non-bolstered frailty and torpor, Chaos, Fighters, RCB, 20% defense down.

That is an extremely small amount of buffs to be using for a Delve boss but I was using it to emphasise my point. Realistically a half decent group will have 6 songs, 4 rolls, 40-45% (not counting frailty) defense down.

[Francisco]

You're doing Tojil wrong if you're hitting as low as 400 even with rigors (after the update at least). Sounds like you aren't using realistic buffs for a boss fight, which invalidates it just as much as using unhasted DPS numbers would.

I'm getting numbers well over 500 using Rigor, only 4 songs and 2 rolls, the difference is I'm actually doing it with relevant debuffs/JAs.

I'm not seeing how this is possible with Rigors, 4 songs and 2 rolls. Even with Oatixur and RCB, it takes 6 songs and 3 rolls to get "well over 500".

Want to tell us what you're doing differently?

Spoiler: show

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ps462fe464.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...psc914b654.jpg

[Fake]

Not using soul voice and at least 20% defense down is stupid. GEO buffs should be used by groups with shitty brds and no angon (should just use them anyway unless you are lowmanning).

It seems silly to be giving advice on content you are clearly very unfamiliar with, all this information resides within the delve thread and can easily be searched for.

[urat]

Not using soul voice and at least 20% defense down is stupid. GEO buffs should be used by groups with shitty brds and no angon (should just use them anyway unless you are lowmanning).

It seems silly to be giving advice on content you are clearly very unfamiliar with, all this information resides within the delve thread and can easily be searched for.

Unless your bard has mythic dagger soul voice buffs wont last entire fight... >_>;

Once again, what buffs do you have set on your spreadsheet so we can be on the same page and actually compare real numbers. Without using the exact same buffs listing our gear has no point.

[Fake]

I already said which buffs I was using 3 posts up, so once again, read.

Plenty of groups can EASILY kill Tojil within the duration of non-relic/mythic brd songs, so good point; but discounting Wildcard's chance to reset, you also have GEOs bolster at a certain point.

Really, stop throwing out stuff for content you clearly aren't familiar with because its only going to achieve the exact opposite of what your OP intended.


NB: With a DPS of 300 on all DDs, it would take 11mins to kill tojil. This is bad.

[urat]

I already said which buffs I was using 3 posts up, so once again, read.

Plenty of groups can EASILY kill Tojil within the duration of non-relic/mythic brd songs, so good point; but discounting Wildcard's chance to reset, you also have GEOs bolster at a certain point.

Really stop throwing out stuff for content you clearly aren't familiar with because its only going to achieve the exact opposite of what your OP intended.


NB: With a DPS of 300 on all DDs, it would take 11mins to kill tojil. This is bad.

Just post your damn spreadsheet and stop talking shit already so we can look at this. We don't want to be insulting, but if you are really getting 500+ dps with rigor baghnacks on the spreadsheet vs tojil then we would like to know whats doing it for you.

[Fake]

Those are completely ridiculous buffs for Tojil.

Haste, Soul Voice March, Minuet 5+4, Madrigal 2, Non-bolstered frailty and torpor, Chaos, Fighters, RCB, 20% defense down.

That is an extremely small amount of buffs to be using for a Delve boss but I was using it to emphasise my point. Realistically a half decent group will have 6 songs, 4 rolls, 40-45% (not counting frailty) defense down.

Fucking read the bolded part, if you can't manage over 500DPS with what I gave then your labotomy was clearly as success.

I'm just going to stop at this point because a picture of using 3 fucking rolls, did you bring 1.5 cors?

[urat]

Fucking read the bolded part, if you can't manage over 500DPS with what I gave then your labotomy was clearly as success.

I'm just going to stop at this point because a picture of using 3 fucking rolls, did you bring 1.5 cors?

So you are quoting dps off of things not even on the DPS spreadsheet... You obviously dont understand how this works here then... /sigh

We can safely disregard everything you are saying. DPS spreadsheet doesnt factor in -def down and etc because it has linear factored returns. So if we put all of your stats into DPS spreadsheet it will NOT be 500 DPS, but probably around the 280~300 range just like ours. For future reference when people are talking about spreadsheet numbers, the DPS value they are using is a COMPLETELY different value from the DPS of your character in game. Spreadsheet is a way to compare pieces of gear against each other, not your actual real damage in game per second.

tl;dr 300 DPS on dps spreadsheet does not equate to 300 dps in game, its a relative number and means something different.

[Francisco]

Fucking read the bolded part, if you can't manage over 500DPS with what I gave then your labotomy was clearly as success.

I'm just going to stop at this point because a picture of using 3 fucking rolls, did you bring 1.5 cors?

Clearly the rolls I posted were to get "well over 500 DPS", not to say "DDs should have 3 rolls... And actually, I could have done it with two, but I added an extra one to preempt more cryptic "those rolls aren't optimal" posts. Guess I get this instead.

Not going to waste anymore time on this tangent. Thread title said "optimal armor sets", not "calculate the DPS of optimal armor sets with every major buff/debuff in the game"...

[Fake]

tl;dr 300 DPS on dps spreadsheet does not equate to 300 dps in game, its a relative number and means something different.

Thank you, I wondered what I had been doing wrong all this time. Clearly the spreadsheets are only relative to themselves and provide no indication of what will actually happen in a given situation in game. Glad you cleared that up.

Motenten I think you should stop hosting the DPS sheets publically, someone might accidently set off a nuclear bomb.

Francisco/Urat, I suggest actually reading what setups and strats people have used to kill the delve bosses so you have some clue of what you're on about rather than just spewing pointless crap.