Optimal Armor Sets Discussion/Compendium(Last update: Aug 10th, 2013)

**NynJa** · 2013-08-12 17:44

Originally Posted by Fake

rather than just spewing pointless crap.

mfw fake says stuff like this
http://media.filmschoolrejects.com/i...joker-face.jpg

**pooter01** · 2013-08-12 18:06

Originally Posted by urat

So you are quoting dps off of things not even on the DPS spreadsheet... You obviously dont understand how this works here then... /sigh

We can safely disregard everything you are saying. DPS spreadsheet doesnt factor in -def down and etc because it has linear factored returns. So if we put all of your stats into DPS spreadsheet it will NOT be 500 DPS, but probably around the 280~300 range just like ours.

First page of the spreadsheet, top right, directly below where you pick which mob you are fighting(3 lines), you have the option of setting the total amount of def down you are applying to the mob.

Please at the least set this to 20%, and use the buffs/debuffs he listed. Those buffs/debuffs are even light compared to most tojil attempts. When trying to decide which set is optimal against certain content, you NEED to compare the sets using relevant buffs/debuffs for that content, otherwise you are just wasting time.

**Francisco** · 2013-08-12 18:55

I don't mind doing it, but I'd like a straighter answer than "at least 20% Def Down" or "sometimes 40-45%..."

Dia III is 15%.
Angon is 20%.
Spirit Surge Jump is also 20%, doesn't stack with Angon, but a DRG could have Angon up for 1:30, SSJump Def. Down for 1:00, 30s downtime, and another 1:30 of Angon... Not perfect, but pretty nice.

That's 35% Defense Down, almost full time unless you bring two Angon DRGs and have a cycle.

Other methods I can't really speak to their reliability (BLU spells, Acid Bolts). Am I missing any other major sources of defense down?

**pooter01** · 2013-08-12 19:03

35% is a decent number to use, most groups would have 40%(dia II + 2x light shot) before geo debuffs. the point was more Urat complaining because fake was using buffs that weren't in spreadsheet(and helping him learn where that option is), and that when finding optimal gear for certain content, you do need to consider what buffs you should have in that content. It does vary from group to group, but there are usually pretty decent standards on the minimum used.

**detlef** · 2013-08-12 19:29

Angon is 25% with augmented relic +2 hands.

**Francisco** · 2013-08-12 20:21

Assuming the following on Tojil: Soul Voiced March x2, Minuet x2, Madrigal x2... Rogue's Roll, Fighter's Roll, 2x Light Shot, Dia II, WHM Haste and Blaze of Glory/Frailty - as well as using Impetus.

Oatixur RCB Build

Spoiler: show

Hit Rate: 95%
Melee DPS on this set was 846.550 (Focus/Impetus) and 791.169 (Berserk/Aggressor).

Corresponding Optimal WS set:

Spoiler: show

Comes out to 5074 for Shijin Spiral. Berserk doesn't help Shijin Spiral.

With these buffs, and this set, Focus and Aggressor do not help at all. Berserk helps VERY slightly. (The combined DPS for these two sets is 1089.829 with Berserk and 1086.838 without it...) Giving that, I'd actually question using Berserk on Tojil with these buffs/this gear. You're probably better off not wasting time using the JA and having the extra defense.

Changing Oatixur to Rigors allows for the same exact TP set as above. With the cavaet that you actually need to use Focus and Aggressor this time around. That will be enough to keep you hasted, and there will be absolutely no need to use Sushi.

The weapon skill set will also be the same, except this time Manibozho Boots pull slightly ahead of Thaumas Nails.

Rigors RCB TP Set:

Spoiler: show

Hit Rate: 95% - as long either Focus or Aggressor is up.
Melee DPS: 703.106 (Focus/Impetus) and 688.306 (Berserk/Aggressor).

Rigors RCB Shijin Set:

Spoiler: show

Once again, Berserk won't help Shijin Spiral here. WS damage will be 4636 either way.

Berserk is a bit more significant with Rigor Baghnakhs. With it, your overall DPS will be 962.545. Without it, your DPS will dip to 945.884.

**Raelia** · 2013-08-12 20:38

This would be plausible if every job had it's own whole forum for discussion, like what goes on over at FFXIAH, or even just one thread per job. Three pages in and this thread is still about 1.7% increases on MNK.

Has anyone even decided on what these 'optimal' sets are even targeting? Are we going with maximal haste or nominal haste? Is it entirely full-alliance-bard-rotation endgame context or can we get some solo/lowman sets in too as people branch into doing delves with less than eighteen people? What's the time threshold for new gear to be 'in play' to be worked into these sets? Do you keep the old sets in case access to the new pieces is a bit thin, or do you just dump the info in the trash even though 90% of people are still using that set? Do the persons doing this so called 'optimization' even understand every function of the spreadsheet and know to configure things like "Over TP Rounds" to not cause severe bias or even downright wrong results?

tl;dr This thread is too ambitious and a bit of a joke. Everyone is gonna go full pchan and work the situations to fit their builds instead of vice-versa.

**TummieGaruda** · 2013-08-12 23:57

Originally Posted by Raelia

tl;dr This thread is too ambitious and a bit of a joke. Everyone is gonna go full pchan and work the situations to fit their builds instead of vice-versa.

I have to agree. There are too many sets for each job and each set is going to be situational. Along with this, you have the fact that there is going to be more discussion about X job over Y job and these type of discussions are best suited in individual job forums.

**Fake** · 2013-08-13 01:57

Originally Posted by NynJa

mfw fake says stuff like this

Go back to inadvertently posting yourself in the random fail thread, its where you belong.

Originally Posted by Francisco

I don't mind doing it, but I'd like a straighter answer than "at least 20% Def Down" or "sometimes 40-45%..."

Dia III is 15%.
Angon is 20%.
Spirit Surge Jump is also 20%, doesn't stack with Angon, but a DRG could have Angon up for 1:30, SSJump Def. Down for 1:00, 30s downtime, and another 1:30 of Angon... Not perfect, but pretty nice.

That's 35% Defense Down, almost full time unless you bring two Angon DRGs and have a cycle.

Other methods I can't really speak to their reliability (BLU spells, Acid Bolts). Am I missing any other major sources of defense down?

Dia 2 + 2x light shot is 20%, a cor can maintain that the entire run, don't even need a rdm. Any non-shit DRG will have AF2+2 augmented hands which makes angon 25% and spirit surge jump is 20%, but you can get augmented Af2+2 body and reuse jump for an extra 60 seconds of defense down (not necessary). 40-45% can be maintained on bosses pretty much 100% due to wildcard.

**Prothescar** · 2013-08-13 02:51

13% from Box Step too if you need that

**Raelia** · 2013-08-13 04:04

Bending the parser values and claiming inordinate or unoptimal means of support to permit using a particular setup instead of creating a setup to best fit a prescribed situation...

Can we just call this Pchan'ing or something?

A perfect cycle of double Spirit Surge jumps? Is this a real suggestion for 'you should have this to use this optimal set'?

New suggestion: Categorize by each slot. Give the best Attack piece, best Accuracy piece, best Multihit/Raw-damage piece, and best Overriding piece (like elemental belt/gorget). Do this for TP, WS, and any pertinent abilities. Even make a tier list with haste values (list the top five attack pieces, ranked by highest to lowest haste). Don't list obvious crap like using Bale Cuirass +2 for Dread Spikes. Instead of giving sets to use, you give the best source of a given resouce. Way more useful than a bunch of single-serving suggestions, like someone asking for a decent cut of meat to go with their beer and you scream "BACON! BACON! BACON IS A MEAT!" We all know bacon is delicious, but it might not be the best choice with every beer, see?

If you need attack, you look at the attack list and pick a piece while keeping the haste value you need. Accuracy? Here's a whole list of accuracy pieces for the slot you don't need haste in. I'm pretty sure people can pick out the biggest number in a set of potential items, you don't have to hold their hand to a single selection.

Tier lists by slot and desired stat. Geddit?

Anyway... Wouldn't it be cool if somebody already had a website that did most of this for lazy people already?

**Prothescar** · 2013-08-13 04:14

Bets use of this thread would be to provide links to existing compilations of gear for the jobs that have them. There's simply too much to list in a single post/thread and the discussion would be pretty counter-intuitive to the "idea" of why the giant question threads and everything were removed anyway, probably.

WAR
MNK
WHM
BLM
THF
PLD
DRK
BRD
RNG
SAM
NIN
SMN
BLU
COR
SCH
DNC
RUN

Each of these provides varying levels of discussion and up-to-date sets, the RUn one being incomplete but will be made whole at a later date, and there's a PUP thing somewhere but I don't remember where, however they provide much more centralized places to discuss and research individual jobs rather than one post with a jumble of sets that would be very difficult to organize based on situation (since there are so many of those) and write information and gearswaps about without the post being a metric fuckton of shitfuckery and requiring monumental amounts of upkeep. Going through this thread to find meaningful, up to date discussion or information about a particular job or gearset would also be nearly impossible.

**Fake** · 2013-08-13 04:18

Not a new suggestion, I pretty much said the same thing. Except you can't prioritize purely on a slot by slot basis, it needs to be done in a manner that is relevant to the rest of the gear being used.

Yes this thread is retarded and the the whole reason this started was a set with 207DPS was posted for tojil.

**urat** · 2013-08-13 05:09

Well what are the 2 main factors in what changes your choice of gear, to be honest? Does -def down ever exceptionally change what piece of gear to use in a set?

I think mayhaps if I formatted in a particular way itd be easier to work it out.

IE:

Optimal gear set:
gear
gear
gear

Low acc swaps:
Piece1->swap; piece2->swap; piece3->swap (until 95% acc)
Lower def swaps:
Piece1->swap

etc etc

List optimal gear set based on capped acc and general haste buffs and then list the order of swaps to do until you cap that stat you are low on.

Would that work?

**Raelia** · 2013-08-13 06:06

The old idea that you can have an attack and accuracy target for something you'll be doing a lot of, like the days of MJSP/Collibri lore, is just an aged concept now. You aren't taking the exact same six jobs every time, you aren't getting exactly the same buffs every time, you can't rely on fighting exactly the same mobs every time. MJSP was the last time anyone was able to say something like 'You need exactly 422 accuracy to cap accuracy on the Mamool THF' and gear to that purpose. The stats of new targets and new content and rate of new gear being released and stat increases per iteration are just so outlandish and variant that, despite nostalgia for such days of it being simple, it's just naive to think you could cook up one set or even a half-dozen sets to cover all situations anymore (not to say we haven't tried, but see how quickly that became dead and dated...)

Even just having a starting point is freakishly difficult. What do you call a 'nominal' or 'median' target? Is fodder your benchmark, or are you starting with Tojil to be ready for new content? How much outside influence or buff reliance do you permit (what half this thread spiraled into already, how centered on your output is the whole friggin' alliance gonna be?)

The answer is: Yes, defense down on the mob affects how you gear, because you can trade Attack and Accuracy for DA/TA/QA easily on several melee jobs now (mostly going from new bodies back to Thaumas, for example). The question is how much defense does your target have, and how much defense down are you bringing, and that's what leads to wild swings in gearing targets.

And to be honest, this is good for FFXI, because the MJSP era was stale as fuck. Stale enough we learned the exact evasion and rough-to-exact defense of the favored meriting mobs.

**shepardG** · 2013-08-13 06:53

I dunno man, before the aug 5th update our bee,shark, trex alliances (while different) were the exact same make up. So having a target amount of buffs was a constant. If your doing PUGs and getting 5 songs instead of 6-7, stuff like that isn't hard to estimate either.

Your statement makes it seem like there's this gigantic variance in how folks are gearing based on buffs, but if you gear for the best buff situation, and then use (and this is in regards to MNK on tojil) an accuracy set you should be at optimal for all buff situations you encounter.
At this point tojil should be considered the baseline IMHO

**kenshyn** · 2013-08-13 08:02

Seems a your 500 dps is better than my 500 dps cause my gears the best type argument. All that matters is you hit the goal 500 dps.

**NynJa** · 2013-08-13 12:59

Originally Posted by Fake

Go back to inadvertently posting yourself in the random fail thread, its where you belong.

You're so cool, keep up the good work of trying to berate others with faulty information

Fact of the matter is, someone who has a group consisting of 2 static 4 song bards, 2 cor's who know how to rotate flawlessly between parties and what not, probably doesnt need any information derived from this. I was under the impression this thread would be for the average joe: 2 2song bards rotating, 1 cor per party not rotating (because people fuck this up easily somehow / buffs take a while to put up), angon, dia2+lightshot. The AVERAGE buffs that someone will generally wind up with in a pickup party. Your average pickup group isnt going to spot you 8 songs, 4 rolls, 5 different sources of def down. And while I understand its "optimal", having 15 different gearsets to raise your sheeted dps from 310 to 311 because you're getting Minuet II is a little absurd.

**Fake** · 2013-08-13 15:30

Originally Posted by NynJa

You're so cool, keep up the good work of trying to berate others with faulty information

Fact of the matter is, someone who has a group consisting of 2 static 4 song bards, 2 cor's who know how to rotate flawlessly between parties and what not, probably doesnt need any information derived from this. I was under the impression this thread would be for the average joe: 2 2song bards rotating, 1 cor per party not rotating (because people fuck this up easily somehow / buffs take a while to put up), angon, dia2+lightshot. The AVERAGE buffs that someone will generally wind up with in a pickup party. Your average pickup group isnt going to spot you 8 songs, 4 rolls, 5 different sources of def down. And while I understand its "optimal", having 15 different gearsets to raise your sheeted dps from 310 to 311 because you're getting Minuet II is a little absurd.

In your desperate attempt to ride my dick you missed the part where I said I could easily hit 500DPS using 4 songs (i.e 2 fucking 2 song brds), and if your brds can rotate then so can your cors. If a group can't make adequate use of the fairly minimal requirements then they either need to get more debuffs/buffs or learn how to make better use of what they have. Simply stating that this is aimed at average players doesn't somehow lower tojil's health or defense, you have to attain a certain killspeed or you're going to time out/hit stun wall.

As usual you've ignored what I actually said. At no point have I advocated tons of different gear sets or aimed anything at the 1337 players, I've just pointed out the gaping flaws in the debuffs/buffs that were not being used for such a high defense target, which would be part of their alliance setup anyway.

At least I know if my house ever burnt down I've got a permanent space in your head where I can reside.

**NynJa** · 2013-08-13 15:35

get help buddy

Thread: Optimal Armor Sets Discussion/Compendium(Last update: Aug 10th, 2013)

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