The crafting & gathering thread.

[Niiro]

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/117...=1#post5871918

[shepardG]

my b, didn't realize the 1st post was getting updated, thanks nii

[Niiro]

Neither did I actually, I tagged Raldo's post when I first saw it.

[Andradi]

I've been looking at the requirements for crafting the ** mats (darksteel ingot in this case), and the craftsmanship rating seems be absurd. With full HQ JSE and tool, I was 35 short. Couple of L3 materia on the body bring it down to 25. This is easily coverable with food, but is that an reasonable thing to do? The spreadsheet of optimal melds doesn't really list much craftsmanship.

Also, based on experience with *s, the expectation would be an HQ of the ** ingot is going to be unlikely, but the actual item shouldn't be too much of trouble. Or should I not even be attempting this until I have a bunch of control melded?

Sorry for the rambling, but these synths feel like a massive gamble and there's no way to really know what to expect until you actually do it.

(I have hasty, SH2, TotT, rumination, manipulation and ARM/BSM at 50, for reference.)

[Ratatapa]

Was making Vanya Silk did a confusing and used Byregot Blessing at 30 dureability
So at 20 i use another Hasty hand to go down to 10%

Condition was normal Fail Hasty Hand and synth broke ....... since when can you loose 20 durability on 1 action when it's on normal state

[TheGlow]

Was making Vanya Silk did a confusing and used Byregot Blessing at 30 dureability
So at 20 i use another Hasty hand to go down to 10%

Condition was normal Fail Hasty Hand and synth broke ....... since when can you loose 20 durability on 1 action when it's on normal state

When the server is lagging really bad and you really were at 10? I get some lag like that but not as bad as you're describing.

[Oxyminus]

I'm a bit of a new crafter (taking everything to 15 to start) and wanted to make sure I'm understanding everyone on the hasty vs. basic touch debate. People prefer hasty because even though it has a smaller success % than basic (assuming both are coupled with steady), you're saving CP which you could invest in say great strides or an extra master's mend.

Thank you!

[Ratatapa]

When the server is lagging really bad and you really were at 10? I get some lag like that but not as bad as you're describing.

I doubt it cuz I was at 20/40 and I didnt had lag in the sense that when i clicked a move the action started immidiatly

[Twilight Sky]

I dunno if its just me, but tricks isnt proccing much today, and steady hands I+hasty touch is failing 5-7x in a row consistently.

Hasty Touch has a 50% success rate. When it will fail is sort of predictable. For me, it'll usually break on the last Stead Hand use, and the last dura I have before I need to finish the synth if that makes sense.

You'll have strings of failure with it, but also strings of success.

How many Poors have you gotten? Every Poor is after an Excellent, and Poor is much harder to miss.

2 or 3. I think it was simply because I was starting out. I get plenty excellents now, although it would be nice if the majority of those came when I had the durability for it.

[Pyros Eien]

I've been looking at the requirements for crafting the ** mats (darksteel ingot in this case), and the craftsmanship rating seems be absurd. With full HQ JSE and tool, I was 35 short. Couple of L3 materia on the body bring it down to 25. This is easily coverable with food, but is that an reasonable thing to do? The spreadsheet of optimal melds doesn't really list much craftsmanship.

Also, based on experience with *s, the expectation would be an HQ of the ** ingot is going to be unlikely, but the actual item shouldn't be too much of trouble. Or should I not even be attempting this until I have a bunch of control melded?

Sorry for the rambling, but these synths feel like a massive gamble and there's no way to really know what to expect until you actually do it.

(I have hasty, SH2, TotT, rumination, manipulation and ARM/BSM at 50, for reference.)

Well for the craftsmanship, other than food(which costs like nothing so you might as well but you could be using control food instead I guess), you can easily hit the cap with materias. Lvl 1 materia for craft is +3, you can forbidden meld a bunch of them in all your gear, even if you only go for 2more forbidden(and let's say you already had one), you're still only looking at say 10-15melds a piece, which is about 10-15k on my server. That'll add +6 per piece, you'll make up what you're missing quickly enough. Basically just throw crappy craftmanship materia 1 at it until you have enough.

And you probably shouldn't bother with 2 star until you have 50 carpenter. Byregot is by far the best skill in the game when it comes to HQing stuff, not having it is like extreme mode crafting when you're trying to HQ 2 star(or even 1star). Once you have Byregot, you need to be extremely unlucky to NOT HQ something. In 2 star crafting having Reclaim in case shit is going really bad can also be useful, granted no item is worse than a NQ item, but I think the 90% gamble is worth it considering the price of the materials. Oh and you'll probably want more 50 stuff too just to make it easier. Mostly GSM 50 for Innovation, combine with Byregot. Rest is fairly optional but also helps, Comfort Zone, Careful II mostly.

[Andradi]

Thanks for the advice, guess it's time to bust out the saw again.

[Spider-Dan]

In that case I guess I would argue that you're not paying attention to the math. That advanced is costing you almost 50 CP, which you could use for 2-3 other actions.

Not sure why we're debating this really. If actual math shows that Basic on an Excellent gives .156N Quality / CP, and Advanced on an Excellent gives .15N, you would still choose Advanced out of the two (assuming that you've already decided to use some kind of touch, as opposed to a completely different ability)?

...

SUCCESS RATE

The point in using Advanced on an Excellent is not because it is most CP efficient, but because it combines high success with largest quality gain. Furthermore, the very question itself is hollow, because nothing can possibly be more CP efficient than unbuffed Hasty Touch. So why don't we use unbuffed Hasty Touch on all Excellents? Simple:

SUCCESS RATE

[fussel]

Hasty Touch has a 50% success rate. When it will fail is sort of predictable.

...

You'll have strings of failure with it, but also strings of success.

Statistics and randomness are a bitch. And unintuitive.

Since the outcome is binary, you can represent a series of Hasty Touches as a binary number. Since the chance is 50%, the average number of successes and failures are equal. Since it's random, when you do an infinite number of n Hasty Touches, each permutation of successes and failures occur in an equal number.

As a simple example, if you do a series of 5 Hasty Touches, each of the following series is equally probable:

Spoiler: show

seq   longest series
00000 5
00001 4
00010 3
00011 3
00100 2
00101 2
00110 2
00111 3
01000 3
01001 2
01010 1
01011 2
01100 2
01101 2
01110 3
01111 4
10000 4
10001 3
10010 2
10011 2
10100 2
10101 1
10110 2
10111 3
11000 3
11001 2
11010 2
11011 2
11100 3
11101 3
11110 4
11111 5

Number of successes:

0: 1
1: 5
2: 10
3: 10
4: 5
5: 1

(Normal distribution, looks about right)

Number of series:

1: 2x
2: 14x
3: 10x
4: 4x
5: 2x

Total: 2^5 = 32

As you can see, if you're doing Hasty Touch 5 times in a row, there's a 50% chance to get at least 3 consecutive successes or failures. Add in a bit of observational bias (you notice: "OH, this happened again", but not "this did not happen now") and you might think that the process you're watching might be predictable, but in reality is not.

tl;dr: Hasty Touch failure is not predictable but random. Hard, cold numbers plz or GTFO.

[fussel]

Also, Ifrit lives in the southeast of Eorzea, so if you face SE on a craft using a fire crystal during Full Moon, Hasty Touch success rate rises by 1%.

[Seravi Edalborez]

SUCCESS RATE

And Durability, of course.

Can't just blindly look at CP value. Because dura is finite and a flubbed success rate = wasted turn = spending CP to recover that Dura without making "progress".

Also confirmation bias as fuck but I cannot count the number of times I decided to do unbuffed Byregot's (90%, mind you) and it just fucking fails when I needed it to not. That's a HQ thrown out the window. I don't trust 90% as it is so 70% can just mosey on out of here.

Also probably bad opportunity to put on tinfoil hat about success rate, but it feels like Hasty Touch fails a lot more on CUL than other DoH.

[Twilight Sky]

Hard, cold numbers plz or GTFO.

Don't take it so seriously.

[Rainsford]

My GSM is at 358/327/366 with CP food, with HT2 being the only non-15, non-GSM crossskill I have. I finish with Strides>Hand>Ingenuity>Adv. Touch, which costs 126 cp. I can finish 40 dura's in one-hit with Standard, and 80 dura's in 2. So, I do whatever I can to build IQ stacks until hitting either 20 or 30 durability or 126 CP, at which point I finish. If I hit 126 CP with lots of dura, I'll still run the rotation and then throw out Hasty Touches until hitting 20 Dura to burn Rumination.

Obviously having Byregot's would be superior (since its cost would only make you have to finish at ~136 CP to have enough for 2 Standard Touches if you start at 30 Durability), but can anyone think of a better way to handle this without leveling Carpenter?

I've had pretty good luck with it so far, and easily get to 100% HQ as long as I actually get 80% success on touches and don't get burned on Goods.

[Spider-Dan]

What is HT2?

[Rainsford]

What is HT2?

Sorry, meant SH2.

[Andradi]

Was just looking at some of the high level GSM stuff, and was a bit flabbergasted.

For 1125 tomes worth of coke on ARM, you can make the two slot heavy darksteel armour or trousers.

For a lot of the GSM stuff, you need 2250 tomes of peacock ore. For a single accessory.