The crafting & gathering thread.

[OnlyAura]

You still need to use the condition multiplier and the efficiency. Can you post the exact code that computes lvldiff?

Aside from that you also need to use round() instead of floor()

[Araetha]

Sure. the whole quality code is below

c = character, r = recipe, g = gain

var lvldif =clvl-rlvl; // character level - recipelevel
var innflag = 0; //flag for Innovation
								if (buff[16]!=0) innflag = 0.5; flag if Innovation is active
								if (lvldif < -5) lvldif = -5;
								if (lvldif > 0) lvldif = 0;																				
								gqua = (1 + 0.05 * lvldif) * (0.36 * ccon*(1+0.2*iqStack) + 34);  
								if (s==13){ // Byregot's Blessings
									gqua = gqua*(1+(0.2*iqStack)+innflag);
								}else{ // modify quality according to skills
									gqua = gqua*(quality[s]*0.01+innflag);
								}
								
								if (buff[15]>0){ // Great Strides
									gqua = gqua *2;
									buff[15]=0;
								}
								
								gqua = Math.floor(gqua);

I have went through the data I have and found that the formula below is more precise than the current one.

gqua = (1 - 0.05 * lvldif) * (0.365 * ccon*(1+0.2*iqStack) + 34);

I also think you are right about round() as i sometimes you need 4 control to gain 1 quality and sometimes you only need 2. This shouldn't happen if floor() or ceil() is used.

I have update my simulator(http://xivsim.x0.com/), but still need to do something with the progress formula.

Edit: I forgot to add that I am not including conditions as we do not know the chance of them to occur. I will add them once we have a way to determine it.

[OnlyAura]

I already posted the progress formula on the previous page, did you not see it?

Also, yes you needed to change your + to a - as you've done. The original post isn't clear what it means by "level difference". i.e. does it mean YourLv - RecipeLv or RecipeLv - YourLv? In any case, it looks better now. Why did you need to change the 0.36 to a 0.365? Did you find a data point that it didn't work with with 0.36 but did work with 0.365? Did you make sure you were using Math.Round() instead of Math.Floor() when you observed this?

[Kawfee]

Not really sure if this question belongs in the crafting thread but... what are you all using gil for?
I assume if you're in this thread and you have a craft at 50 you're probably fairly wealthy compared to the average player. It's extremely easy for me to make gil now, but... what's the point? Given that you can get full DL, relic+1, allagan, and af+1 for "free", other than repair cost, what's the point of gil? HQ Vanya/Gryphonskin gear with quint melds to get that incremental boost til you can go from DL>ilvl 90? Maybe Housing eventually? I felt like in XI there was gear that was phenomenal and extremely difficult to obtain without amassing wealth (resulting in "goals" in the game to achieve), in XIV I don't really see it. Seems like gil is essentially useless other than very minor maintenance (repairs & teleports). Getting to endgame was fun, but getting full DL gear and relic+1 in basically 8 days (hit 50 just as myth timer was resetting, netting 600 in 24 hrs) leaves me without understanding where my goals should be. Just bide time and level other jobs until more content is released? Am I a sadist for wanting to drool over a 40,000,000 gil speed belt on the market board?

[Seravi Edalborez]

I'm just hoarding personally (all 50s in everything), as I did in XI. I keep ~100k on myself and the rest on retainers. Still just pawning HQ mats, fish, and things I haven't sold yet, haven't actively tried to "get rich" yet.

I'll be dumping a shitload into housing unless the prices are absurd.

[Suited Aces]

Not really sure if this question belongs in the crafting thread but... what are you all using gil for?

It's for the freedom of not worrying or caring about how much I spend on the market board. Only 1 HQ hippo skin on the market board for 8000g. Ok. I'll buy it. Wind Crystals in stacks on 1000. Sure, whatever. Oh, this piece of equipment is spiritbonded, I'll just convert it and buy/craft a new one and throw some melds on it.

and enough to buy the biggest house. That was the original goal.

[Raineer]

The game will mature, and the people who have all the gil now will be in a position to have even more of the gil later. It's a lot like real life. And all that wealth goes to ease the farming/grinding burdens that come up with future expansions.

I didn't partake in 1.0 past the first two weeks (it was too dreadful to continue) so I'm far far behind the curve.

[OnlyAura]

The game will mature, and the people who have all the gil now will be in a position to have even more of the gil later. It's a lot like real life. And all that wealth goes to ease the farming/grinding burdens that come up with future expansions.

I didn't partake in 1.0 past the first two weeks (it was too dreadful to continue) so I'm far far behind the curve.

I'm hoping eventually they will make some items that have the same level of rarity as, for example, Kraken Clubs, D. Rings, or Speed Belts but because of how hard they would be to craft. Currently from what I can see with top end gear setups you can get 80-100% HQ rates on the best items. I'm thinking they could make items that even with the best gear you would only have 1-2% HQ rates. You could take this a step further by allowing these items to be used as ingredients to other, even better items, with similarly abysmal HQ rates. If they wanted to make items REALLY rare, they could introduce certain items that *require* HQ ingredients as one of the materials, and these HQ ingredients could also be the result of synthesis recipes who themselves have abysmally low HQ rates.

Other options include rare recipe drops from endgame instances, where you have to learn the recipe by getting the recipe drop.

I think right now it's just hoarding gil, but the way the system is set up, it's very easy to imagine where they're going to take things and what they could do to make the gil market viable. It's not just about creating a market though, it's about giving the game a sense of identity. These rare items, love them or hate them, is what pushes people to keep going in any MMO, not just FF games. So I think it's just a matter of time, the game has only been out a short time after all.

[Araetha]

I already posted the progress formula on the previous page, did you not see it?

Also, yes you needed to change your + to a - as you've done. The original post isn't clear what it means by "level difference". i.e. does it mean YourLv - RecipeLv or RecipeLv - YourLv? In any case, it looks better now. Why did you need to change the 0.36 to a 0.365? Did you find a data point that it didn't work with with 0.36 but did work with 0.365? Did you make sure you were using Math.Round() instead of Math.Floor() when you observed this?

With 0.36 I find that it gives way less quality when your control goes higher (when inner quiet stacks are high). I dont know if you can see this spreadsheet but it's the data i have been collecting.

Also I still not sure how progress penalty works. I need data for progress and I'm not sure how to collect it. I have tried the formula you gave and it is also a bit off when craftmanship goes higher.

[Spider-Dan]

Here's the problem I'm running into with gil:

What are you supposed to do with it?

Even if you have 8 digits+ of gil, you'd have to be stupid to sink any sort of real money into (for example) iLV70 craftable battle gear when you can't resell it. The Bind on Spiritbind system really removes a huge part of the incentive of having money; it's extremely difficult to justify spending millions on a quint-meld Vanya set when you know you can get better gear for free if you wait. And the looming spectre of "all your gear will become useless garbage in a few months" doesn't help.

[Niiro]

I don't see how it's any different than spending hours farming philos/mythos for gear that you can't resell and will eventually be invalidated.

[Seravi Edalborez]

Sometimes you only end up needing a pricy piece for a really short time though. Like days or hours. Then it sucks you can't even give it to a friend when it's (personal example) a decent-melded Dodore Doublet that emulates NQ DoH AF body.

[Niiro]

If it's so pricey and you know you're only gonna need it for a short time you're better off just finding an alternative really.

Not trying to defend the binding system overall, it can be obnoxious at times, but any gear that isn't made from philo items is pretty damn cheap and abundant.

[chichicha]

I don't see how it's any different than spending hours farming philos/mythos for gear that you can't resell and will eventually be invalidated.

This I'm quite with it, also Hq crafted items can be coloured with whichever you like

[OnlyAura]

With 0.36 I find that it gives way less quality when your control goes higher (when inner quiet stacks are high). I dont know if you can see this spreadsheet but it's the data i have been collecting.

Also I still not sure how progress penalty works. I need data for progress and I'm not sure how to collect it. I have tried the formula you gave and it is also a bit off when craftmanship goes higher.

Can you isolate under what conditions the progress formula is off? In my experience it's dead on for every synth I've tried. If you think it's high Craftsmanship, this is simple to test. Find a situation where the formula is wrong. Note the following things: RecipeLv, YourLv, ActualProgress, FormulaProgress, Craftsmanship. Reduce your Craftsmanship by removing a piece of equipment. Repeat the exact same item with the exact same parameters. Note the values again. Repeat this process, and if you're correct that the reason is due to high craftsmanship, eventually you will find a value of craftsmanship where the formula works again. If it continues not working, then the reason is not related to Craftsmanship.

I'm also uncertain what you mean when you say you're not sure how to collect data about progress. Why is collecting progress data any different than quality data? Just write down the input parameters each time you perform an action.

Anyway, currently there's no data in your spreadsheet related to progress, so it's hard to help figure out why you're seeing incorrect progress gains without some actual numbers.

Regarding the quality data in your spreadsheet, nothing else is recorded except Control level and quality gain. You can't solve anything with so many unknowns. You need to keep variables constant so you can isolate the factor that causes it to change. to that end, you should be recording your level and recipe level in every row as well (and ideally this should also never change, although it should still be recorded anyway), and you should additionally mention the efficiency and condition that were used to record the progress gain (for example, was it Basic Touch with 100% efficiency, or something with 125% efficiency, etc). These could be important, for example, if they apply ROUND() in multiple places in the formula instead of just on the outside. (I don't think they do, but still, best not to assume anything)

If you think the numbers .365 or 34.0 are slightly off, then one way to figure it out is to take a very large number of data points (remember that all other variables except control need to be constant), and plot them on the (Control, Observed Progress) plane. Draw a line with origin at (0,0) through the middle of the points. Rotate the line to the left keeping the origin constant until it is passing through the outermost point. Find the equation of this line. Now rotate to the right until it touches the outermost point on the bottom, and find the equation of that line. The line that bisects the angle given by these two lines will most likely satisfy all points, but if it doesn't it should be obvious which direction you need to rotate it in, and you can narrow it down this way. I chose this method because it's easy to do with pen & paper, although if you have tools available to you like mathematica or matlab you can do a least squares regression line which will guarantee an exact match line fit with high probability.

[TheGlow]

I dunno, I must be missing something. I have all DoH to 17-18, Armorer 50, Cul 37.
I'm broke. What can/should I be doing to start generating funds? I haven't tried any */** yet as I'm scared Ill mess up and not HQ it.
Whats a typical fee/tip for melds?

[Hellfury]

I'm just hoarding personally (all 50s in everything), as I did in XI. I keep ~100k on myself and the rest on retainers. Still just pawning HQ mats, fish, and things I haven't sold yet, haven't actively tried to "get rich" yet.

I'll be dumping a shitload into housing unless the prices are absurd.

This pretty much for me as well

[Andradi]

I dunno, I must be missing something. I have all DoH to 17-18, Armorer 50, Cul 37.
I'm broke. What can/should I be doing to start generating funds? I haven't tried any */** yet as I'm scared Ill mess up and not HQ it.
Whats a typical fee/tip for melds?

It probably depends on your server, but SCOUR the market boards for things you can make that aren't already spammed, make HQ, sell for a reasonable price. It's not amazing money but if you play the boards right you can make a steady income from mats that are cheap as chips.

For melds 2-5k seems to be a reasonable range.

[Raineer]

Don't know that it actually helps, but I've got all the crafts at 22-35 with only gathering, haven't spent any money (1). Part of my leveling process is to make every recipe once to get the XP bonus. After that's done I check the market boards to see what they're selling for, which is typically nothing but occasionally there's something in good demand. I may only make 3-5k per AH slot but that adds up.

This approach leaves your inventory screaming of fatness but I think that's part of the game (screw you cooking).

(1) I did have to find a time I could farm Diremites for 3 hours one time, and will surely be doing the same later in WVR. Yes I agree this is the same as spending money.

[Kawfee]

Good news is the hotfix next week is increasing diremite web supply (read: sell yours NOW buy back later). I did the same approach as you, making things as I go to level and using gathering to farm the mats, made me a pretty penny while grinding up. However, now the market is so volatile, you can just scan the market board every few days and find something worth 100g today that was 10,000g a week ago, and vice versa. Plenty of opportunity to make money.