The crafting & gathering thread.

**Obsidian** · 2013-10-21 13:01

Steady Hand probably.

I just got ARM to 50 the other day and have started on CRP to get Byregot's Blessing, and I'm wondering if there's a reasonably successful way of HQing the 70-80 durability synths with NQ materials, because buying HQ mats is very quickly running me out of gil, and even making HQ lumber from HQ logs is fairly expensive and time consuming. I have all the level 15 abilities except Waste Not and Ingenuity, but none of the 37/50 ones except for ARM. My CRP is currently 31 (I'm doing the Heavy Steel Lance leve in Costa del Sol). I've tried Hasty touch abuse but that seems pretty unreliable.

Any advice would be great.

**Andradi** · 2013-10-21 13:12

Advice: get Steady Hands II.

But I'm not sure if you're better off doing that before or after getting Byregot's.

**BerenTebogo** · 2013-10-21 13:13

Byrgeot before SH2 imo

**Seravi Edalborez** · 2013-10-21 13:16

HQ mats are usually overkill (70-80dura) or whybother (40dura, 80 dura * or **). Steady Hands + Hasty Touch should be getting you through most of the quality. If you're finding yourself spited by the random number god, then yeah I'd sidetrack to CUL 37 before continuing. Can't really go wrong with either that or Byregot's first.

Main thing with Byregot's is having that assured finish and making 40 dura synths not painful to HQ for leves and such.

**Deadgye** · 2013-10-21 13:19

I wouldn't bother with hasty touch spam unless you have at least careful synthesis, hasty touch, tricks of the trade, and rumination. HQing current level synths with NQ mats is not an easy thing to do until you have a bunch of cross class skills.

**Obsidian** · 2013-10-21 13:23

I have all of those, although I haven't found much use for Careful Synthesis. I guess I'll just suck it up and turn in NQ Walnut Macahuitilisthjdfajsfs to get through this level range until it doesn't take me six steps with Basic touch to finish them any more.

**BerenTebogo** · 2013-10-21 13:39

Originally Posted by Obsidian

I have all of those, although I haven't found much use for Careful Synthesis. I guess I'll just suck it up and turn in NQ Walnut Macahuitilisthjdfajsfs to get through this level range until it doesn't take me six steps with Basic touch to finish them any more.

I rarely, if ever, used CS1 since I always have SH / SHII up.

I use CSII a lot though with ingenuity, that is definitely worth it. Made back to back HQ Vanya silk + HQ Vanya robes using only +20 craftmanship food on my 100% unmelded WVR. Shit's SUPER easy once you have all cross classes. When I 80-100% 2* 40 Dura with no melds I really was losing it laughing.

**AntB** · 2013-10-21 15:48

I wouldn't bother with Rumination at all. Byregot's should be the only thing you ever use your Inner Quiet on. I'd get Careful Synthesis II ASAP tho, that shit is so OP when finishing. Still yet to NQ a 2* item using NQ mats, right now crafting is so damn easy can prob HQ with eyes closed. Once you have all the ability's granted.

**Akiyama** · 2013-10-21 16:08

Like.. for people like me who are still slowly working up in levels trying to get all the abilities, I still use Rumination sadly because heck, I don't even have steady hand 2 (about 14 levels away with tons of stuff to turn in for triples that i've been making for the past few days..so I'm seeing about 3-4 levels from that at the very least), but once I do get all the good ones like CS2 and Byregot's.. I'm sure I won't need Rumination anymore.

**AntB** · 2013-10-21 16:23

Originally Posted by Akiyama

Like.. for people like me who are still slowly working up in levels trying to get all the abilities, I still use Rumination sadly because heck, I don't even have steady hand 2 (about 14 levels away with tons of stuff to turn in for triples that i've been making for the past few days..so I'm seeing about 3-4 levels from that at the very least), but once I do get all the good ones like CS2 and Byregot's.. I'm sure I won't need Rumination anymore.

I'd go full steam ahead for blessing tbh, it's the best skill there is for quality.

**Spider-Dan** · 2013-10-21 17:31

I think Rumination is really best for if you have CUL50. That way, if you just get a run of bad luck on Hasties, you can pop Rumination -> Reclaim and get a do-over.

**Seravi Edalborez** · 2013-10-21 17:37

^ Only reason I really keep Rumi on the bar.

**Deadgye** · 2013-10-21 21:11

Originally Posted by Akiyama

Like.. for people like me who are still slowly working up in levels trying to get all the abilities, I still use Rumination sadly because heck, I don't even have steady hand 2 (about 14 levels away with tons of stuff to turn in for triples that i've been making for the past few days..so I'm seeing about 3-4 levels from that at the very least), but once I do get all the good ones like CS2 and Byregot's.. I'm sure I won't need Rumination anymore.

Yep, and that's exactly why I only used level 15 skills in my recommendation. I don't understand why everyone else keeps assuming everybody has all crafting classes 50 as if it's like a pre-request for crafting or something. Us lesser peons actually have to craft first before we can obtain those abilities lol.

**AntB** · 2013-10-22 02:08

Originally Posted by Spider-Dan

I think Rumination is really best for if you have CUL50. That way, if you just get a run of bad luck on Hasties, you can pop Rumination -> Reclaim and get a do-over.

Generally If I feel my quality is too low before I do my finishing Blessing I have over 100 CP left and I'll just reclaim and blow it myself. All depends on your total CP then I guess and how you craft/what order you do your abilities in too.

Originally Posted by Deadgye

Yep, and that's exactly why I only used level 15 skills in my recommendation. I don't understand why everyone else keeps assuming everybody has all crafting classes 50 as if it's like a pre-request for crafting or something. Us lesser peons actually have to craft first before we can obtain those abilities lol.

Yea I couldn't even imagine having to start from scratch and trying to HQ without the abilities I had from the start. Although, It's extremely easy now to level crafts on leves(also if you can HQ <.<) so it shouldn't take people too long if they know how to make a little bit of gil from gathering/farming/spiritbonding or something.

**Xerlic** · 2013-10-22 13:29

Originally Posted by Obsidian

I have all of those, although I haven't found much use for Careful Synthesis. I guess I'll just suck it up and turn in NQ Walnut Macahuitilisthjdfajsfs to get through this level range until it doesn't take me six steps with Basic touch to finish them any more.

Is your gear up to date? I've been doing CRP for the past week, as well (currently 41). I spammed the Walnut Makawaka leve through most of the 30s and don't remember having much difficulty HQing either the logs or the swords. My only non-15 craft is CUL 37 so it's not like you should need 50 abilities to be HQing.

**Obsidian** · 2013-10-22 14:40

Yeah my gear is up-to-level. Trying to make them at 31 was taking me six synthesis actions just to finish them, never mind building quality at all. I ended up having a CRP friend make me a bunch with my own mats and burned through to 36. Now I'm making my own HQ Yarzon spears which is significantly easier but I still NQ occasionally when I blow up Hasty Touch seven or eight times in a row. Steady Hand II will definitely be the next thing I do before moving on to GSM.

I also caved and starting using some Control food which has helped noticeably.

**OnlyAura** · 2013-10-26 00:04

Do the II versions of the abilities stack with the I versions? Like if I have Waste Not up and I put Waste Not II up, will it reduce my Durability Loss from 10 to (0.5)(0.5)(10) = 3?

Similarly for Steady Hand / Steady Hand II, if I put both up will I have a 40% success bonus, or will one overwrite the other?

Also is Innovation multiplicative or additive with Inner Quiet? Like the formula for Control is

(1 + 0.2*InnerQuietStacks) * BaseControl

When you factor Innovation into this, does it become

(1.3) * (1 + 0.2*InnerQuietStacks) * BaseControl

or

(1.3 + 0.2*InnerQuietStacks) * BaseControl

**Raineer** · 2013-10-26 02:20

No, the latter version used will overwrite the former.

**Seravi Edalborez** · 2013-10-26 08:38

^ Works the same for gathering abilities if it was in question.

**Rehwyn** · 2013-10-27 17:57

Hey, I haven't posted in a while but just wanted to give a bit of an update. I haven't done a lot of extra research on Control, Quality, Progress, etc since my initial tests since I've been busier actually crafting stuff. However, I have found some evidence that slightly changes my initial findings and indicates a bit more testing may be warranted.

For very high levels of Control (which were not included in my initial data, due to not having a well-geared 50 crafter), the original formula appears off. For example, when doing a recent level 49 synth as a 50 GSM, Basic Touch added 265 Q with 621 Control and 293 Q with 690 Control. Based on my initial formula, I'd have expected 258 Q @ 631 Control and 282 Q @ 690 Control.

Suffice to say, while my original findings worked fine for control up to about 200-250, for higher levels it's noticeably off. When I added my new data to my original data set, I couldn't get a linear equation to fit just right. In the next few days, I'll try to get a new data set using Mega-Ethers, since they're a nice, cheap 80-durability level 50 synth.

Additionally, after some further testing, my initial findings regarding level-based penalties are slightly off as well. For 1 and 2-star synths, the penalty to progress seems closer to 45% rather than 50%. Also, the penalty to quality seems closer to 26-26.5%. I can't really test level differences of 1 to 4 anymore since I'm 50 all crafts, but obviously my initial findings are a bit off and if people really want to refine exact values further testing is necessary.

Anyways, just wanted to let you guys know that my initial findings are not 100% correct, even if they are fairly close.

Thread: The crafting & gathering thread.

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