Wildskeeper Reive Reduction Theory

[Kaisha]

Is there actually a final reduction?

I've been sitting at 30/55k for a couple weeks now, got it reduced after trading in 6 tags to one of my lower-rank coalitions with no upgrade in rank from turning them in also. I had a proper tag count on everything before I mucked up by using tags in a capped coalition, based on the assumption they'd carry over when SE let us rank up higher from earlier this month. Don't really have anything to contribute otherwise since I always maintain quest completion per update, and use tags at random on various coalitions when I feel in the mood to blow them.

Over 340 tags used at least at any rate.

[dasva]

Well no one has reported more than 5... and alot more coalition rank ups and quests are available now so one would think that it probably is the last. But yeah I'm at 360 used... just saving some up to do a bunch at once.

[Ophannus]

25k/50k is likely the final reduction. It's 50% off and also prevents people from actually gaining Bayld from WKR.

[sahearniitth]

Just something to add in for elimination purposes. I have max reduction and have only done a few unique assignments so its not related to that either (incase it was still in question). Here is a list of assignments I have done so far.
Clear: Ceiz & Morimar (Pioneers)
Preserve: Ceiz (Peacekeepers)
Patrol: Rala (Peacekeepers)
Support: Ceiz (Couriers)
Survey: Ceiz, Foret, Sih (Scouts)
Analyze: Foret & Morimar (Scouts)

For reference I was Advisor in Scouts/Peacekeepers/Pioneers and Probationer in Couriers when I got my final reduction.

[dasva]

Well here is something that is just going to really throw a kink in the theories. Finally got my final reduction. Don't have an exact imps used since I go in 3s.... but I didn't have it with advisor in 3 (scouts, mummers and couriers) and 30 imps into peacekeeprs (probationer) and got final after turning in a set of 3 after that. Putting me at 361-363 useful imps spent. All quests except geo af done on main and all quests except geo/run af/limit break on the mules and got reduction at same time

Almost begining to think not all coalitions are equal

[Sechs]

Your post instead, and in contrast with this thread's initial theory, makes me think that it's not the number of "rankups", but the coalition ranks.
It's not the first post I read about people who had certain coalitions very high (max) and other very low (like your Peacekeeper's at Probationeer).
This would hint that it's not the # of rankups at all, but some sort of "average coalition rank" or something similar.
In addition to the # of imp spent of course. I still haven't seen anything in contrast with the theory of the "double" check (# of imp + ranks)

[dasva]

Well it's obviously not imp count since I passed what was possible pre update...

Not really sure what you are getting at as far as average rank vs number of rank ups since the 2 will be directly proportional and for this purpose effectively the same thing.

Heres some interesting food for thought. Guy right above me said he got his somewhere in probate on his 4th coalition just like me. Classicmage on the page before says he hasn't yet on same number of rank ups which is between 16 and 17 but took me 11-13 imps into to get it. And further back on last page someone stated pre update that they got theirs 3 imps into discple on their last coalition pre update which would be between 17 and 18 rank ups. Assuming classicmage hits 5th reduction soon would point at having to get between 16 and 17 rank ups for having lots of quests done or at least more than the person who got 5th pre update last page. And that it probably took between 17 and 18 preupdate with the number of quests available pre update. If we can get more exact imp counts on final reduction and quest amounts we might be able to kinda nail this down...

So on that note Malithar do you remember your quest count when you got 5th reduction? Sahearniith same question and do you remember how many imps into probate you were when you got yours. And Classicmage have you got yours yet and same questions as Sahearniith. Based on your last post and what I've seen assuming you've done a decent amount of the quests you should have either gotten it by now if you have been using your tags

[Sechs]

Well it's obviously not imp count

Not so "obviously".
I still think it's # of imps + something else.
The theory which I and other people supported is that of a double (possibly multiple) check.
I.e. the # of imp spent does indeed count, but it won't be enough unless another requirement is met. (whatever it is)
Just for the sake of example let's assume a "Secondary Reduction Check" (SRC):

Situation 1:
* Sechs has spent #49 Imp from the previous reduction
* Sechs has an SRC of 3, the next reduction requires >=3
* Sechs spends another imp and gains the next reduction

Situation 2:
* Sechs has spent over 54 Imps from the previous reduction
* Sechs' SRC is 3, the next reduction requires >=4
* Sechs can keep spending Imps as much as he wants but as long as his SRC doesn't reach at least 4, it won't matter

Wouldn't this explain why a lot of people who had a somehow distributed (and not concentrated) amount of efforts within SoA contents were regularly gaining reductions after 50 imps, right on spot and even if the last imp didn't produce a rankup?
Of course this would leave us to square one in trying to figure out what SRC could be and how it relates to Coalition Ranks and Adoulin fame.
I think it's safe to assume THERE IS a relation, no?

Not really sure what you are getting at as far as average rank vs number of rank ups since the 2 will be directly proportional and for this purpose effectively the same thing.

I was of course assuming the use of average through means other than the arithmetic one. (like geometric?) They should produce different results no? I might be wrong here, my math skills are very weak and didn't develop further after high school, which believe me is a long time ago.
Also assuming that different ranks might have different "values". Like a Rank4 + 5xRank1 might not necessarily weight the same as 3xRank2 + 3xRank1, altough in term of rankups they're both worth "3".
Altough yeah, it seems a bit too complicated for SE to go this far into reduction formulas...

[sahearniitth]

Unfortunately I don't remember how far I was into probate (but it wasn't much) but I am pretty sure I had all quests completed (with possible exception of the final mog garden one). I also had all WKR kills done.

[dasva]

I suppose there can be some kind of other reduction factor but whatever it is it has to be something that isn't missions or quests or number of ranks... so wtf lol?

Well mean averaging will basically just be number of rank ups divided by number of coaltions sure you can weight one like you are saying but you can weight the other one too... I suppose you could be talking about median or mode but those are both ruled out since people are getting reductions on non rank ups.

[Malithar]

So on that note Malithar do you remember your quest count when you got 5th reduction?

Had every quest done at the time except for the Yahse one that asks you to go to Moh Gates and get a sample of lava or whatever, could never find that Reive down and never cared enough (til after update and Library rewards were added) to get it done, as well as the final one in the 3 part line in Adoulin. 2x Twithyrm Wings > Velkk neck/mask > Umbril Ooze. I forget the number of quests that there were, but those were the only two I was missing.

[Kaisha]

Got my final reduction today.

All quests done minus two in Yorcia (the snapweed/tendril one, and the one introduced last update), all missions done.

Tags spent in each coalition since I can't recall rank names:
Pioneers - 69 (just added 3 to it which made the KI drop to 25/50k)
Peace - 41
Scout - capped at Advisor (100?)
Mummer - 13
Courier - 82
Inventorys - 56

Which is 361 total.

[dasva]

Advisor is 110. Hard to say much with the random amounts in each coalition like that since I think it's more or less been concluded that there is some kind of weighting system on imps... but for what it's worth you took 6-10 more than me with those quests not done and different coalitions filled out. In terms of rank ups that is about 17.75 to my 16.5 and other people with more recent amount of quests doing 16-17. While before they added bunches of quests mal basically got it at just over 17 but waaaay less imps used with less mission.... I officiallly give up. Either there is another factor besides imps, rank ups and quests, different coalitions weight imp use differently, or some of these reports are off some

[Hitou]

I logged on to 25/50k KI for WK the day of the update that added the changes/ new WkR. I had contributor in all 6 coalitions and I think my KI's were 75k before the update. I had done all the missions up to that point but didn't finish all the quests. I have no idea which ones I had done at the time since I didn't write it down but a good amount of them.

My mule also is 25/50k now with way less quests done but more than the 12 or w/e I used to have done on him. I had stopped getting rank ups on him for a long time since I only bother to do Mining in morimar >
Marble nuggets assignments to save time and get decent bayld on him. Missions are still only just past the dinner invitation. I think I he had Advisor in scouts, partner in Pioneers, Contributor in inventors and couriers (or possibly partner in couriers), and petitioner in mummers and peacekeepers with maybe 9-15 imps spent between those two. I'd have to look up how many imps spent that is roughly.

Donno if that helps contribute anything but that was how it went for me to the best of my memory.

[Sechs]

I don't remember exactely (could use the forum search hey! But I'm lazy) but I got my last reduction at roughly 300 imps used. A bit more but around that.
I had all coalitions at max rank (contributor) except for Peacekeepers, if I recall, which were still at Petitioneer.


@Dasva
Is this the first time someome makes that hypothesys? The "weighing" one.
Makes sense to me, just like the double check one.
So in theory there could be a "tiered" system. You raise up your tier in here somehow, with multiple means (quests, fame, ranks?).
The higher your "tier", the less imp are needed for a reduction, lowest possible being 50.
The lower your "tier" the more imps you need?
Were you suggesting something like this?
It's not that different from the double check system that I and other people theorized.
This other system seems a bit more convoluted, but it does make a lot of sense to me.

[Shazam]

I think Sechs and Dasva are on to something.

All i know is that you won't get the 5th reduction until 15th Rankup MINIMUM if you fullfill all of the other conditions (whatever they are).
Most people will achieve max reduction at 16.X rank ups.

As sechs and dasva theorized, it's probably.

Every 50 imps used (combined with quests (thoery: 1 quest complete = 1 imp used credit)), 2 or 3 Rank ups achieved during this reduction = 5k Reduction.
Every fame level increase might also be considered a "rank up".

If you don't meet the second check : amount of rank ups, or fame level ups. Then your imp count required for reduction rises by x amount. Possible 10 extra imps required to rank up.

Has anyone ever got a reduction from ONLY doing missions? don't think missions are involved at all.


I'm going to start a second account sometime in the next week and start using Imps in one coalition only. Once i get to like 150 i'll report my findings.

[dasva]

Hmm another idea for some slight inconsistencies especially concerning people with lots of partial rankups is insteadnof some tertiary factor we haven't figured out yet is that make somewhere within it's calculations it rounds in some way. So partials will sometimes count sometimes not. Also could go to why for people who have completed all quests you often see rank ups either right after passing a rank or right after halfway

[Sechs]

Has anyone ever got a reduction from ONLY doing missions? don't think missions are involved at all.

Haven't seen any report, but truth be said haven't seen many tests either.
Only thing that I'm pretty confident about is, just like you wrote in your premise, that the first 50 imps do not count for reduction purposes.

I'm going to start a second account sometime in the next week and start using Imps in one coalition only. Once i get to like 150 i'll report my findings.

There are some reports in the old thread concerning imp spam on the same coalition.
I remember Noodles but there were other people as well.
We're talking about pre-patch, so KIs were still 100k and lowest was 75k (25k reduction).
You can probably use the forum search function, but I think Noodles hinted doing a lot of imps in Pioneers after capping it at contributor, and having prices still at 100k.
Either his "tier" was very low and in that condition a huuuuge amount of Imp were necessary, or imps used which do not grant "rank up points" do not count towards reduction (like you theorized on the first page).
I'm leaning towards the second hypothesis of course, altough it makes me wonder how the game discriminates between "imps that generate rankup points" and those who don't. Maybe game doesn't even count imp usage but a hidden value generated by imp usage? And this value is generated only when the related coalition is not at max rank?

[Shazam]

Similar to how the fame NPC doesn't count any quests after you achieve the max rank at this moment.

For example, you reach level 5 fame in adoulin, however it doesn't matter how many additional quests and repeatables you do, y ou will not reach rank 6, and when they do raise the cap on rank 5, all those quests you did won't matter.

[Koyangi]

It took me exactly 60 imps to get Dinner Invite. I ranked up to 21 Imps used in Pioneers and Peacekeepers, 5 Mummers, 13 Scout's. I was Fame level 2 and did 1 Quest after Fame level 2 which was the 1 to get Climbing skill.

Does the Imp's that start to count towards reductions start as soon as you get Dinner Invite or after getting the Barometer from Dimmian?

Someone mentioned 1st 50 imps don't count, since it took me 60, does that mean, my 1st 60 didn't count, or even if it took me 60, 10 of those counted afterwards? (I ranked up in Peacekeepers when I got to 60 total.)