Bard Detail

[Jem]

A DPS increase is a DPS increase, you could say the same thing upgrading a level 70 piece > 90 piece, under most circumstances. Because you have more than 1 job at 50 is a reason to leave 1 job half-assed and go to buy 2-3 pieces of gear for another job so you can leave them both half-assed? Finish one job before you start another. If you we're disputing getting an armor piece for BRD over the +1 Relic for BRD 1st that would be understandable. But not getting it so you can go gear another job? Really?

I have WHM at 45, slowly progressing it up, I have full access to philosophy tomes for it, but I have no plans to use any mythology on it until i am finished with BRD. You can call me my brand new WHM gimp if you want. I really don't care. But at least I know when I start using mythology for it I didn't sacrifice any potential on BRD just to get 2-3 pieces.

Patience is a virtue.

Disagree purely because if you want to have any hope of using your other jobs in PF groups, you're practically forced to pick up a few pieces because of people ilvl requirement standards. Average ilvl 70/71 is going to block you out of an awful lot of groups. I mean my BRD is ilvl 75 due to Allagan/CT pieces + Relic/Titan and I'm blocked out of more groups than not.

My PLD is 'finished'. I could make minor upgrades like picking up AF2 legs to replace Allagan but no way would I spend 825 to do that when sinking 2 weeks worth of points would be a pretty large upgrade for my BRD.

It's going to be personal preference but I would think that the vast majority of people with multiple jobs are going to choose large upgrades for their secondary jobs over 90 > 90 marginal upgrades / situational gear for their main job. Especially with the vertical gear progression of the game making it very likely next update a lot of those minor upgrades will no longer be BiS.

[Therin]

Without a lockout, I would agree with Classikmage. But since there's a very strict lockout keeping our progress down in this game, everyone should be thinking to maximize their potential to do content in the game which means getting multiple jobs to that i80+ tier where they're geared enough for every fight in the game. You can be a monojobber if that's your thing, but that's not what FF MMOs have been designed to be.

At this point in time, spending 1-2 weeks worth of lockout on a 1-2% DPS increase on a single job when you could get another job up to par and increase your flexibility is a very silly idea. The only situation that you could justify it is when you're gearing specifically for Turn 5 and pushing hard to hit the 4200 HP minimum (6500 for tanks) or if you feel that that 1-2% is going to suddenly make your team meet the DPS checks when they otherwise couldn't (generally, practice and experience will produce a MUCH higher DPS increase than a piece or two of gear).

[Day]

Well he doesn't have another job at 50 it sounds like so he hasn't run into the issue/annoyance of having like a full DL 50 with Relic that you can't use on hardly anything. Soon you have to start making choices on which job to uprgade, and I think you're tons better off going for the biggest upgrade possible, for whatever job you have at 50 unless you don't plan on playing it or something.

No one is going to call your fresh 50 WHM gimp unless you try to drag it into EX Primals or Coil T4-5, you're just severly delaying getting geared to a usable point by completely finishing your main job, waiting for complete BiS etc...

[Jem]

Pretty much, it's the lockout that is a killer for gearing secondary jobs.

I know I can force my BRD to ilvl 80 by equipping 3 PLD accessories if I had to (which puts me at 5 90 pieces, 3 80 pieces). So it's possible to 'legit' hit ilvl 80 without spending a single Myth on a job at this point in time but it requires the ability to kill all 3 Extreme primals and to have their drops (Extreme Weapon, 3 Extreme accessories, 2 Ultima accessories, 3 CT drops would put you at ilvl 80 I believe).

[Deader2818]

Isn't Elfin bow only good if you have allagan pants? If I have +1 bow already is there even any reason to go for Elfin bow?

[Spider-Dan]

Elfin Bow is clearly superior to everything but Allagan everywhere but Turn 5 (and maybe turn 4 depending on your gear). Those are the only places where the extra accuracy on Zenith makes a difference.

[Judai]

My PLD is 'finished'. I could make minor upgrades like picking up AF2 legs to replace Allagan but no way would I spend 825 to do that when sinking 2 weeks worth of points would be a pretty large upgrade for my BRD.

Your PLD is finished without a BIS piece? AF2 legs are BIS and should be upgraded for PLD, Zenith Bow is the third best bow, not a good comparison.

As for Elfin Bow, with people saying they do Extreme Primal sand shit with like 450 or less Acc, it is clearly far ahead of Relic/Zenith for everything except Coil, where you need certain pieces to make it work by replacing all that lost accuracy.

[Jem]

Your PLD is finished without a BIS piece? AF2 legs are BIS and should be upgraded for PLD, Zenith Bow is the third best bow, not a good comparison.

As for Elfin Bow, with people saying they do Extreme Primal sand shit with like 450 or less Acc, it is clearly far ahead of Relic/Zenith for everything except Coil, where you need certain pieces to make it work by replacing all that lost accuracy.

There was a reason I put finished in quotes. It's finished as in any upgrade I could make is very marginal (i.e. 90 > 90), not finished as in I have every BiS item for it.

My point is that spending 825 Myth on my BRD doing 70 > 90 upgrades is going to be a far larger improvement than spending 825 Myth on my PLD doing 90 > 90 upgrades.

Spending 900 Myth on Relic +1 for BRD if you have Elfin is the same thing. It's a very marginal situational upgrade and you'd be better spending the Myth on other jobs unless you are diehard about BRD or it's your only job. Yes Valor legs are technically BiS but only defensively so it's still situational (I know I would rather have the 34 Crit in more fights than the 10 Parry). So it's a fair comparison.

EDIT: Like I said it will be personal preference but I imagine most people would focus on a secondary job rather than make 90 > 90 situational upgrades for their primary.

[Deadgye]

Did some more testing but got cut short by maint. Wanted to leave the game running while I slept but I'm not staying up another 3 hours for the game to come back up.

500 Crit Hit Rate :: 5471 hits; 925 crits; 95% confidence; 15.9-17.9%
541 Crit Hit Rate :: 7514 hits; 1466 crits; 95% confidence; 18.6-20.4%
547 Crit Hit Rate :: 16802 hits; 3406 crits; 95% confidence; 19.7-20.9%

[TheDirtyHobo]

It's just down to preference. My PLD is like i87 or so, just missing the belt, earring going from i70, and boots going from i80. I already have 6700 hp in a group, more with food. I'm comfortable tanking Twintania, Titan extreme, etc. Spending more myth on it to fill out those last few slots just seems like a waste to me; it doesn't enable me to go into any new content that I can't currently do. Meanwhile, I could upgrade my SCH book and go from "kinda sketchy" to "pretty confident" in my ability to heal BC if I ever need to.

[fren.]

What's the average parse for a BRD in T4? BLM in a recent run kept boohooin'g about the low DPS from the BRD's when I really haven't had much complaints in regards to it previously. Full myth and a few quad-melded gryph pieces for gear basically.

[Azurewrath]

Well brd's dps is going to be low compared to a blms in turn 4, everybodys dps is going to be low compared. It's aoe heaven on that fight. Give the litle bitch requiem and he'll shut up

[Miltani]

Would the following be considered BIS?

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/LHEU

Total stats is as follow

DEX497 (+224)
ACC476 (+135)
CHR561 (+220)
DET244 (+42)
SS412 (+71)
VIT394 (+194)

OR is there a better set?

[Deadgye]

The only other set I can think of would be -6dex, 470acc, +8crit, +24det, -32skill, +10vit. So that very may well be the best set for coil. For any current non-coil content though, there's definitely better sets.

[Kelenae]

Would the following be considered BIS?

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/LHEU

Total stats is as follow

DEX497 (+224)
ACC476 (+135)
CHR561 (+220)
DET244 (+42)
SS412 (+71)
VIT394 (+194)

OR is there a better set?

Looks good, i would swap out hero's for termors to say 480 for twin but thats me.

[Deadgye]

I never parsed a miss with 473 accuracy in turn 5, but that was only 2 hours worth of fighting phase 1+2. I'm fairly positive that all turns of coil have the same accuracy cap. 95% sure that turns 1-4 definitely share the same acc cap, which lends itself towards turn 5 being the same since people kept saying/quoting different acc caps for each turn.

I might do turn 5 attempts/practice without food tomorrow for science to try and get a parse at 471acc.

[Ksandra]

So my acc is really low for coil, and we are trying to practice turn 5 every week. I have a lot of options to bring it up, but not sure what's best.

Here is where I am at atm:

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/LHFB

[Raldo]

Lava Toad Legs HQ seems like it'll get you to "good enough" status (470, unless my math is wrong).

[Deadgye]

Swap out allagan earrings of aiming for hero's, they're better anyway. Then you can either change the neck to ultima, change the wrists to gryphonskin, or change the garuda's ring to gryphonskin.

[Ksandra]

Lava Toad Legs HQ seems like it'll get you to "good enough" status (470, unless my math is wrong).

legs hq brings it to 463 and are expensive on my server, so like to avoid that route if possible.

Swap out allagan earrings of aiming for hero's, they're better anyway. Then you can either change the neck to ultima, change the wrists to gryphonskin, or change the garuda's ring to gryphonskin.

hmmm ya that sounds good. I'll probably aim for ultima's neck, ty!