Bard Detail

[Raldo]

BL costs no TP for the same damage, and every tic that goes by with BL's recast up is a potential waste of a River proc.

and every BL you shoot while your GCD is up is damage you're guaranteed to waste. Also, unless you're not paying attention, you should never miss a BL proc because you can only get one a max of once every 3 seconds.

[Niiro]

Use BL -> use Heavy -> proc while using Heavy -> BL

?

[Raldo]

I don't know what you're trying to say there, but I am simply saying that if both BL and HS are available (or if HS is really close to being up), you should use HS then BL.

[Niiro]

And I'm saying that it's a 150 potency attack either way, but one costs TP while the other doesn't and using it sooner gives RoB a chance to proc sooner.

[Raldo]

One option gets your GCD rolling, and the other option does not. I'm not sure what more I can say. By your logic, you'd recommend putting Bloodletter before Heavy Shot in a BRD macro (and maybe you actually do recommend that; I certainly do not), but it's clear that I lack adequate words to explain this. The difference is, of course, minimal either way.

[StUfF]

And I'm saying that it's a 150 potency attack either way, but one costs TP while the other doesn't and using it sooner gives RoB a chance to proc sooner.

DoTs apply damage every 3 seconds (synced with server so even with multiple targets dots tick at the same time), you can Heavy Shot -> BL within 3 seconds, there is no chance of losing a RoB proc going Heavy Shot -> BL unless you miss a whole GCD for BL.

Going BL -> Heavy Shot adds the animation delay to your next GCD. BL -> Heavy -> Heavy vs Heavy -> BL -> Heavy. The second one completes first in practically all cirumstances.

[Deadgye]

DoTs apply damage every 3 seconds (synced with server so even with multiple targets dots tick at the same time)

Different targets have different tic times, most likely depending on when they spawned. I haven't tested inside instances yet, but you can confirm this with normal mobs.

Barring that, you can say definitively that using Bloodletter instead of Heavy Shot when you have one target is usually a silly thing to do. Heavy Shot has a chance to give you a guaranteed crit on Straight Shot, bloodletter does not.

[StUfF]

Different targets have different tic times, most likely depending on when they spawned. I haven't tested inside instances yet, but you can confirm this with normal mobs.

Oh really wierd, I didn't know this.
I guess dungeon mobs are spawned when the instance is created, and things like nails and titan adds and gaols, chirada, suprana spawn at the same time anyway.

[Cham]

This might be a silly question but has been bugging me for a while. Does that mean that each DoT really only tics one time less than we always calculate for? For example, we always say Windbite and Venombite are 6 tics because 18s/3s. But with the way tics work, unless we apply it exactly right on top of a tic, it really only ticks 5 times?

Or am I missing something here/my logic is whack.

[Raldo]

Or am I missing something here/my logic is whack.

Tick 1: 00s : 01s : 02s
Tick 2: 03s : 04s : 05s
Tick 3: 06s : 07s : 08s
Tick 4: 09s : 10s : 11s
Tick 5: 12s : 13s : 14s
Tick 6: 15s : 16s : 17s

18s DoTs are guaranteed to get the full 6 ticks regardless of when you fire it (see: above chart). The only variance would be if you happen to time it perfectly, you might get 7 ticks if it ticks immediately after it's applied, and then one extra right before the effect wears off; I don't know if that case can actually happen though.

[Cham]

So my logic was whack. Good to know, thanks.
Also, mildly embarrassing.

[athiwat]

How much different does using a macro vs manually pressing a skill makes? I don't see any different in using a macro vs manually.

I even go to a extreme case and use
/wait
Between a GCD skill and offGCD skill.
Still not much difference in my testing.

Can someone give me a comparison with some test data?

[Raldo]

The main example we have is back here:
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/117...=1#post5928696

So about that macro vs. action bar reuse speed...

While you can "prebuffer" GCD actions (when clicking the action icon and not a macroed action) at ~75% of GCD cooldown, they don't actually execute until the GCD completes. Based on that, I took my BRD out (Skill Speed: 380) and recorded the amount of time it took me to fire 30 Heavy Shots at a training dummy. (All of the following was with a PS2 controller.)

First, I "prebuffered" the Heavy Shot action by clicking it exactly once between 75-85% of GCD recast. Total time- 1:12.23
Next, I made a macro consisting solely of /ac "Heavy Shot" <t> and used the turbo function on this controller to spam it. Total time- 1:14.05

That works out to a ~0.06sec time savings on prebuffered direct action vs. turbospamming a macro. Suffice it to say that if you believe this is significant, you should also be gearing for skill speed.

Long story short: use macros.

Arguments for manual:
• Prebuffered actions (see above)
• Ability to make decisions (i.e. it's better to wait .1 seconds to fire an upcoming Heavy Shot, then fire a fresh Bloodletter proc as we discussed about 10 posts back in this thread, but the macro system can't do that)
• Full control over buffs

Arguments for macros:
• Less occupied hotbar space
• Less to keep track of
• Less room for error

Ultimately, the method you choose is entirely up to your own preference, as the difference is minimal.

[athiwat]

The main example we have is back here:
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/117...=1#post5928696


Arguments for manual:
• Prebuffered actions (see above)
• Ability to make decisions (i.e. it's better to wait .1 seconds to fire an upcoming Heavy Shot, then fire a fresh Bloodletter proc as we discussed about 10 posts back in this thread, but the macro system can't do that)
• Full control over buffs

Arguments for macros:
• Less occupied hotbar space
• Less to keep track of
• Less room for error

Ultimately, the method you choose is entirely up to your own preference, as the difference is minimal.

But I can argue that with my macro I can't miss any BL proc using /wait that everyone seem to hate. As if BL came off cool down 0.1 second after the 1 second mark then it will use it next off GCD which I don't lose anything most of the time. I guess I will stick with my macro.

It also allow me to use ir before every windbite if its available.

[Raldo]

I am having a difficult time understanding what you're trying to say without seeing your macro.

Could someone more experienced with macros come and shed some light on /wait in macros? I am under the impression that if you hit another macro while your /wait is running, the first macro will stop executing. If this is true, that means that if you're hitting this macro more often than once a second, it will fail... a lot. It is for this reason, that I think using /wait in a battle macro is a terrible idea, but I'll admit that I'm not 100% familiar with how the game handles multiple macro executions at once.

[athiwat]

I am having a difficult time understanding what you're trying to say without seeing your macro.

Could someone more experienced with macros come and shed some light on /wait in macros? I am under the impression that if you hit another macro while your /wait is running, the first macro will stop executing. If this is true, that means that if you're hitting this macro more often than once a second, it will fail... a lot. It is for this reason, that I think using /wait in a battle macro is a terrible idea, but I'll admit that I'm not 100% familiar with how the game handles multiple macro executions at once.

First to answer your /wait thing, yes it does cancel but I only press a button every 2.5 seconds. I personally don't like spamming my button in to pieces.

I have "two" set of macros, first is the save-burst one. (note that I have a panic button for BL and ME)

/ac "NON-DOT"
/wait
/ac "ME"
/ac "BL"

/ac "IR"
/ac "DOT"
/wait
/ac "ME"
/ac "BL"

and the other set is what I use after using all my buffs to keep using all buff after the cooldown is over.

/ac "NON-DOT"
/wait
/ac "ME"
/ac "BL"
/ac "BUFFS" except IR

/ac "IR"
/ac "DOT"
/wait
/ac "ME"
/ac "BL"
/ac "BUFFS" except IR

That's basically what I'm using.

[Judai]

yea i don't get it. /wait makes the macro worse unless he is just hitting it once.

[Seravi Edalborez]

I am under the impression that if you hit another macro while your /wait is running, the first macro will stop executing. If this is true, that means that if you're hitting this macro more often than once a second, it will fail... a lot.

Yes.

I don't recommend /wait macros in any capacity as a DPS. Game does not do fractions for /wait (they round up), so you face a imprecision problem every time you hit that macro unless you are a robot.

If you are skipping a oGCD period because of your macro, that's a pure DPS loss. That's a BL that could have proc'd, or a buff that didn't overlap with another buff for 3 seconds, or whatever.

[athiwat]

Why do you need to round /wait up? I'm pressing all GCD skill myself. The /wait in this case only works for using oGCD skills that comes after the GCD that I pressed.

[Raldo]

Well, what you have is probably functional, I'm sure, but it's certainly not ideal. If your goal is to reduce the number of times you have to hit buttons though, then you're probably fine. There's literally no reason for the wait in your main macro except for the purpose of reducing the number of times you have to hit the button.

If you find yourself hitting the "panic button for BL and ME" a fair amount, then I would suggest removing the wait from your main macro (probably the others too, but the main one is the only one I looked at closely), and simply hit your main macro whenever you see that HS/BL/ME is available for use.