FFXIV Random Complaint Thread: Look forward to it

[Raldo]

How hard is it for players to see Eruption cast-timer and start running? That's all there is to it.

I stare at my feet and run when I see the cracks underneath, but same difference really.

[Kipling]

How hard is it for players to see Eruption cast-timer and start running? That's all there is to it.

Cast bar : Eruption
Run backwards

There's so much wiggle room it's ridiculous. This ain't unforgivable Earthen Furies.

Dodging isn't the issue. Why stick the healers in locked positions instead of doing it this way and then following a predictable always the same sweeping pattern for nails? Seems like you're just making things complicated by being lazy.

All that is, is something trying to make their way seem so much better. Running back is just as easy and so long as you drop to the right or left all ranged DPS should be just fine never running out or range. Normal DPS can just curve inwards and make a dash for him. Your side curve adds nothing, if it is what you are use to then cool, but dont say its better. Because you end up running the same distance.

Also, you can run to the side all the same if you get a late jump its the same thing, with the same amount of room even. In fact, you claiming you can dodge is false. The center way gives you two ways to dodge, there is still room on both sides(even the mage with SW) iv done it many times on my bard when I get hit by one I jump off to the sides to dodge the rest.

Why would you EVER get hit? You shouldn't ever be getting hit by eruptions, one of the pros of this method is that it eliminates this entirely because there is only one direction to go, and you aren't giving people the choice to branch out and possibly hit each other.

[Obsidian]

Excuse my 3 minutes in paint:



Red X = Ifrit
Green = OT
Purple = DPS and their "curve back to the right" to avoid eruptions along the edge of the arena
Blue = Healer's positions

I'm still confused as to how this approach accomplishes anything other than making everything more complicated. You're still losing DPS by running away. You leave the healers way less room to switch positions without wind-ing somebody, and you still have to split sides for nails anyway. It looks like being different for the sake of being different. Running straight back is way easier (never mind trying to coordinate DF'd members) and if whatever DPS you somehow gain by running a curve is making or breaking your Ifrit runs, you've got bigger problems. We have to stop DPS before the third nail phase or he Super Hellfires, every time.

I will say I hate the "V" positioning that tanks seem to love doing. There's no point to that and whenever someone slides beside me I just sigh and a small piece of my soul dies. But forcing all the movement on your healers is a good way to make sure a tank dies because someone was running instead of casting.

[Kipling]

I'm still confused as to how this approach accomplishes anything other than making everything more complicated. You're still losing DPS by running away. You leave the healers way less room to switch positions without wind-ing somebody, and you still have to split sides for nails anyway. It looks like being different for the sake of being different. Running straight back is way easier (never mind trying to coordinate DF'd members) and if whatever DPS you somehow gain by running a curve is making or breaking your Ifrit runs, you've got bigger problems. We have to stop DPS before the third nail phase or he Super Hellfires, every time.

I will say I hate the "V" positioning that tanks seem to love doing. There's no point to that and whenever someone slides beside me I just sigh and a small piece of my soul dies.

1) I think you must not have read my original post where I specified that it's hard to coordinate pugs because they all do it the way most people here seem to be advocating out of general laziness, and that I specified this is how my FC does it - Not that I am trying to push this on pugs.

2) How do the healers have less room? If anything, they have more freedom to move around. The healer with wind is always on the left (with the only exception being during nail phases), and the healer without is in the middle for easy AoE access and can even move with the DPS as they do nails and help DPS/heal the group easier. I also specified earlier that using this method, when you do nail phases 1 and 2 it looks like this:

• Beginning wind of nail phase = Healer who gets Searing as nails start sits on the left side.
• Second wind of nail phase = Healer who gets the second wind during nail phase sits on the right side because the DPS are now swinging towards the left to clear the nails there.

There third and final nail phase looks like this:

• Beginning Wind of nail phase = Healer who gets Searing as nails start sits on the left side.
• Second Wind of nail phase = Same as beginning due to increased amount of nails.
• Third Wind of nail phase = Healer goes to the right because DPS are now swinging to the left and finishing the big nail.

3) DPS is never an issue, it's just simply about being lazy and not making it easier and therefore simpler by following a set pattern every single time over introducing chaos because you refuse to change or feel it's "the way things are". We never even use LB3 for the final nail because it dies well within time. We save it to one shot ifrit after he comes back down. If you can't manage that then you're lacking.

[Kaixin]

I will say I hate the "V" positioning that tanks seem to love doing. There's no point to that and whenever someone slides beside me I just sigh and a small piece of my soul dies.

Just curious here. Why is there no point? V-positioning leaves OT eruptions always on the rim away from everybody else and incinerates never hit anything but 1 tank. It keeps Ifrit and the tanks in a consistent location that everybody can use as a reference point. Seems like it removes a lot of variables for free. What is the alternative?

[Dammerung]

Just curious here. Why is there no point? V-positioning leaves OT eruptions always on the rim away from everybody else and incinerates never hit anything but 1 tank. It keeps Ifrit and the tanks in a consistent location that everybody can use as a reference point. Seems like it removes a lot of variables for free. What is the alternative?

The alternative is knowing the Incinerate pattern and when OT eruptions happen. Then you make use of that knowledge so you can go hit nails/stand next to melee who is chained so he can hit nails, move out from everyone on eruption, and make it back in time to tank Ifrit before the other tank gets a 4th stack.

[TheDirtyHobo]

Just curious here. Why is there no point? V-positioning leaves OT eruptions always on the rim away from everybody else and incinerates never hit anything but 1 tank. It keeps Ifrit and the tanks in a consistent location that everybody can use as a reference point. Seems like it removes a lot of variables for free. What is the alternative?

Or you can just have the OT not stand in the party during the nails, it's not like that's exactly hard.

[Kaixin]

The alternative is knowing the Incinerate pattern and when OT eruptions happen. Then you make use of that knowledge so you can go hit nails/stand next to melee who is chained so he can hit nails, move out from everyone on eruption, and make it back in time to tank Ifrit before the other tank gets a 4th stack.

Gotcha. I just feel the advantages by having tanks on Ifrit outweigh those by having tanks run back and forth. If OT stays with Ifrit the entire time, he can: 1) Keep his OT debuff on Ifrit. 2) Keep eruptions away from the party no matter what. 3) Keep chain location consistent (often chain lasts through a tank swap anyway, so you'll be MTing with a chain on you--ending up yo-yo-ing the ranged DPS if they get chained). If you're keeping track of your own eruption and running out to not place it in melee's way, and also running back to pick up Ifrit on the swap, how much DPS are you really adding as an OT to nails? And is that added DPS worth it? I guess if you're running double PLD and everybody's on the same page, it doesn't hurt.

Or you can just have the OT not stand in the party during the nails, it's not like that's exactly hard.

Not stand in the party...you mean like, in a V with Ifrit?

[Elcura]

1) I think you must not have read my original post where I specified that it's hard to coordinate pugs because they all do it the way most people here seem to be advocating out of general laziness, and that I specified this is how my FC does it - Not that I am trying to push this on pugs.

I love everything about this post. How is using an accepted, sensible strategy being lazy just because yours is different? Consider how much trouble you had to go through to explain how to deal with something as simple as Eruptions, when the accepted strategy only requires players to run backwards in a straight line.

I like that using a standard easy to understand strategy is being lazy.

3) DPS is never an issue, it's just simply about being lazy and not making it easier and therefore simpler by following a set pattern every single time over introducing chaos because you refuse to change or feel it's "the way things are".

This just flat out makes no sense.

[OWS_Tonx]

I prefer the V pattern when tanking. When I get my stacks and the other tank pulls off me I start workin on nails close to us so when the DD work their way around there will be a safe spot we can aim Ifrit so there's so chance for anyone to get hit with any conals. It works either way honestly

[TheDirtyHobo]

Not stand in the party...you mean like, in a V with Ifrit?

Know when eruption comes. Walk out of party beforehand. Let eruption drop on you. Walk back in.

V-tanking is for lazy shits who don't want to learn the fight and want to move their burden of skill onto someone else, just like "all ranged" and "no healer swap" strategies are.

[Dammerung]

The "standard, accepted" strategy comes from 1 youtube video from a popular channel. Note said video was also made like 1-2 days after the fight came out and I don't think it has been updated with information that you gain from running it many times, so it is a strategy that assumes Incinerate is random.

[TheDirtyHobo]

I don't have an exact timer that I'm counting down to when incinerates, particularly double/triple incinerates, are going to go off, but it's something you gain an internal clock for by just sort of reading the rhythm of the fight. There are nifty little things you can do that buy you a lot of leeway in it, such as properly timing Hallowed Ground to just ignore all 3 of the triple incinerate during the final nail phase, which resets your stacks.

[Kipling]

The "standard, accepted" strategy comes from 1 youtube video from a popular channel. Note said video was also made like 1-2 days after the fight came out and I don't think it has been updated with information that you gain from running it many times, so it is a strategy that assumes Incinerate is random.

Is the fact that this fight is scripted like every other primal not common knowledge? Guess that would explain a lot.

[Obsidian]

Gotcha. I just feel the advantages by having tanks on Ifrit outweigh those by having tanks run back and forth. If OT stays with Ifrit the entire time, he can: 1) Keep his OT debuff on Ifrit. 2) Keep eruptions away from the party no matter what. 3) Keep chain location consistent (often chain lasts through a tank swap anyway, so you'll be MTing with a chain on you--ending up yo-yo-ing the ranged DPS if they get chained). If you're keeping track of your own eruption and running out to not place it in melee's way, and also running back to pick up Ifrit on the swap, how much DPS are you really adding as an OT to nails? And is that added DPS worth it? I guess if you're running double PLD and everybody's on the same page, it doesn't hurt.

Paladins have no useful debuff to apply to Ifrit, and cannot reliably apply it anyway because WARs don't spam Butcher's block. Eruptions stay away from the party anyway as long as you're not retarded. Even if you don't move, the Eruption will pop nine times out of ten as the nail dies and all the DPS migrate to the next nail. "Keeping the chain consistent" doesn't make much sense to me as a statement. If a melee gets chained to the tank in a V formation and there are no nails nearby, they're SOL. Outside of the V formation, tanks can follow melee around and if ranged get chained they need to take like two steps off the centre of the battlefield to keep the chain at one stack (or just rotate with the melee and make your healer's life easier). The chain always falls off shortly after every swap if you swap at 3. I'm not sure what relevance two PLDs have. It's arguably easier with two WARs (Overpower/Steel Cyclone the double stacked nails, full-time Path/Eye, two extra Mantras).

The V formation is for lazy tanks.

[dejet]

Dodging isn't the issue. Why stick the healers in locked positions instead of doing it this way and then following a predictable always the same sweeping pattern for nails? Seems like you're just making things complicated by being lazy.



Why would you EVER get hit? You shouldn't ever be getting hit by eruptions, one of the pros of this method is that it eliminates this entirely because there is only one direction to go, and you aren't giving people the choice to branch out and possibly hit each other.

Oh I'm sorry, I guess you have never had a person jump the gun or fell behind for whatever reason. Don't kid yourself mistakes happen. And that does not fix anything really.

Its your way, it works;great now stop telling me its the perfect way lol.

Also how do healers have more room? Its the same, all your doing is moving the healer to the center vs the edge. The side is now cut out, thus the same amount of room is lost.

[Kaixin]

Paladins have no useful debuff to apply to Ifrit, and cannot reliably apply it anyway because WARs don't spam Butcher's block.

Are Ifrit auto attacks not affected by STR? One Rage of Halone combo every 20 seconds is both reliable and not going to pull aggro. Conversely, when the PLD is tanking, a WAR OT has Storm's Path to apply.

Even if you don't move, the Eruption will pop nine times out of ten as the nail dies and all the DPS migrate to the next nail.

And by V-tanking the eruption will stay out of the way ten out of ten times.

If a melee gets chained to the tank in a V formation and there are no nails nearby, they're SOL.

If there are no nails nearby sounds like the party is ahead on nails anyway and you don't need OT dps on nails.

Outside of the V formation, tanks can follow melee around

Granted, a plus.

if ranged get chained they need to take like two steps off the centre of the battlefield to keep the chain at one stack

In V-tanking, they don't need to move at all.

I'm not sure what relevance two PLDs have.

I was throwing that out there as an incentive for the OT-on-nails strat, because in that scenario OT doesn't need to keep his debuff on Ifrit. Just trying to keep an open mind.

The V formation is for lazy tanks.

I don't think that's fair. Like I've stated previously, there are a ton of little benefits of keeping tanks from roaming, and I don't think anybody has argued that killing all the nails in time is hard--in fact killing nails too fast is often bad. Maybe you're not a fan of the KISS principle but I wouldn't call V-tanking lazy. On the same note, I wouldn't call a roaming OT a bad strategy either, if OTs and healers are on the ball it sounds like a good way to speed up the nail phase.

[Sephiroth]

I've come to the conclusion that no one reads the comments on party finder groups any more. Tried to put together a weekly clear for Garuda, with "not a learning party, please don't suck" in the comment. Had one guy join thinking it was Titan. Had the 8th person join and "gtg" within 30 seconds (must have joined the wrong one too). So we get in there, have three tries and the furthest I saw was the first set of adds. Getting fed up of having to do everything but Coil with randoms but I can't find a new FC as I'd effectively be leaving my Coil group. Think I need to hunt down some decent linkshells.

[Obsidian]

Are Ifrit auto attacks not affected by STR? One Rage of Halone combo every 20 seconds is both reliable and not going to pull aggro. Conversely, when the PLD is tanking, a WAR OT has Storm's Path to apply.



And by V-tanking the eruption will stay out of the way ten out of ten times.



If there are no nails nearby sounds like the party is ahead on nails anyway and you don't need OT dps on nails.



Granted, a plus.



In V-tanking, they don't need to move at all.



I was throwing that out there as an incentive for the OT-on-nails strat, because in that scenario OT doesn't need to keep his debuff on Ifrit. Just trying to keep an open mind.



I don't think that's fair. Like I've stated previously, there are a ton of little benefits of keeping tanks from roaming, and I don't think anybody has argued that killing all the nails in time is hard--in fact killing nails too fast is often bad. Maybe you're not a fan of the KISS principle but I wouldn't call V-tanking lazy. On the same note, I wouldn't call a roaming OT a bad strategy either, if OTs and healers are on the ball it sounds like a good way to speed up the nail phase.

Auto-attacks are hardly the threat in Ifrit, and even if they were we have no idea how much -20% STR actually reduces damage. The Eruption will never hit the party either way so long as a DPS doesn't run into it; I should have said 99/100 because there's always the chance the DPS chained to you or the other tank will walk into your Eruption, and being away from both will mitigate that chance instead of hoping your co-tank never has to move to avoid Incinerating a dumb DPS. It's pretty easy to have no nails near the tank(s) while a DPS is chained to them. DoTs plus the offtank wailing on them is typically enough to have the nearest ones bead before the DPS get halfway around. In these situations it's less "why DPS nails" and more "I don't want to pull Ifrit while the chain is at 4 stacks." Ranged DPS do have to move regardless, unless the far nails are still reachable from Ifrit's ass (standing in the middle puts the chain at 2/3 stacks); I honestly have no idea if they are or not.

PLD/PLD strikes me as the worst of the three tank compositions, in general but for Ifrit especially. No useful debuff, no AoE damage (lol Circle of Scorn), and less damage overall. V-tanking is the lowest common denominator method of tanking Ifrit but I will submit that if your tanks can't move for Eruptions (which seems to be the driving force behind that method) they're not very good in the first place. I'm colourblind; Ifrit is one giant oversaturated clusterfuck for me and I still manage not to drop Eruptions on my party. I'm not sure what the KISS principle is so you've got me there.

[Obsidian]

For an actual complaint: thanks for fucking up the Focus Target casting bar again, Square. The original fix wasn't great but at least it was sort of visible. Now we're back to having it behind the mob's name so it may as well not be displayed at all.