FFXIV Random Praise Thread: Time to melee RDM

[Day]

Only at the start of the fight or if you severely outgear the tank. Won't happen on any bosses.

[Elcura]

It's pretty much my experience with taking hate from tanks. Start of the fight or never. Do your tanks just stop doing shit half way through?

[Day]

Naw I mean like at the risk of sounding like I have shitty tanks, there was a time when I could fire away and not pull hate, now I have to watch myself, using quelling etc. It's not like I've put this to some serious test, but I'm pretty sure I could pull it off most tanks as long as I was up there around 2-3 spot in the first place.

[Kiarax]

OG Snake, BRD/DRG didn't stop deepsing (split w/ stack cause who gives a fuck):

Literally double their enmity. I could go afk and you wouldn't pull hate anytime soon.

[Ratatapa]

Tell your sch to fix her EFE macro

[lilbubbles]

I know what you mean as I mainly play BRD and PLD. If the DD's go all out at the start and pull hate like that, the tank can just voke and continue their combo and the DD's shouldn't be able to catch up after that unless you're being really stupid like outlined in the above post.

I can't speak for PLD/WAR combos as we use PLD/PLD but the worst person to keep hate off for us is seemingly the OT PLD when they're in Sword Oath. I know I have to be careful when I'm the OT otherwise I take hate.

According to people here they should be able to go all out and do all the damage they want and any good tank will hold threat.

People that actually play the game will see a dps taking threat and say, wow, that guy is being stupid. People on forums, blame the tank apparently.

[Deadgye]

On any fight that's medium length to long, tank losing anywhere after the first couple of combos should not happen at all, yes. Completely agree.

Stuff like dreadnaughts in turn 4 are pretty much a minute long burst though. When we had our monk on the phase 5 dreadnaught from the start and pop potions/buffs he'd end up pulling hate about halfway through because he did so much damage. Now him and me just start out on the phase 5 knight and he takes hate from the warrior off tank, but we kill the knight before it can kill him.

[Day]

Well we will just have to agree to disagree lol, cause I'm certainly not saving up my buffs, firing them all off at once without quelling in any fight anytime soon.

[Jem]

You can do all the damage you want. Really stupid as in popping all your abilities at once and not bothering to use quelling. And even in that scenario, the tank just uses Provoke and carries on as normal. It shifts hate for the whole of 2 seconds and then all the DD's abilities are on CD so he can't do it again.

[lilbubbles]

Only at the start of the fight or if you severely outgear the tank. Won't happen on any bosses.

Fine, go with the worst case possible.

And even in the case where the dps severely outgear the tank, like the post this was based off of. Relic +1 vs non level 50 sword.

Is it the responsibility of the dps to watch his threat or not?

If you say it is the dps's job to hold back, then you've agreed with everyone I have said. In which case, the dps did a really good job.

[Rocl]

It's the DPS' job to do the most damage possible.

[Grey Jorildyn]

Aside from a BRD bursting a mob to all hell at the start of a battle, it's virtually impossible for a Shield Oath'd Paladin who is doing their job properly to lose hate to any class in the game under normal circumstances (ie. no slashing resistance, no weird hate mechanics, vastly different gear levels, etc.). Over the course of a fight the math weighs heavily in favor of the tank every single time. What exactly is the argument here?

[3.141592]

What exactly is the argument here?

I'm sure the guy is a great tank and all, but it isn't his job to hold hate.

That tanks were implemented into the game for the sole purpose of standing around and looking pretty.

[lilbubbles]

That tanks were implemented into the game for the sole purpose of standing around and looking pretty.

Generate != hold. Obviously a tank generating lots of hate lets the dps open up, but in the example cited it didn't make that tank a miracle worker for the dps doing their job and looking at the meters presented to them.

[Seravi Edalborez]

"Nobody" in DF is (intentionally) holding back. If they are, it's shouldn't be conscious. They're just bad at playing DPS. The most the MNK did there was not be in Fists of Fire. Could be they were a shit MNK, but fact remains this terrible-weapon PLD held AoE and single hate where, again, even relic tanks fail at it.

[Elcura]

On any fight that's medium length to long, tank losing anywhere after the first couple of combos should not happen at all, yes. Completely agree.

Stuff like dreadnaughts in turn 4 are pretty much a minute long burst though. When we had our monk on the phase 5 dreadnaught from the start and pop potions/buffs he'd end up pulling hate about halfway through because he did so much damage. Now him and me just start out on the phase 5 knight and he takes hate from the warrior off tank, but we kill the knight before it can kill him.

Like I said, unless your tank physically stops doing shit they should not lose hate after initial engagement. In turn 4 our tanks never lose hate and the DPS certainly don't slow down, and we certainly go all in on Dreadnaughts. If your tank stops doing shit or isn't attacking the mob (trying to split hate between two different types of DPS) then taking hate is easier.

But stealing hate is only a risk at the start, otherwise it just seems like your tanks aren't paying attention or doing shit.

Relic +1 vs non level 50 sword.

HAHAHA.

This guy. I saw his name in this topic and by god he delivers.

[Carth]

If your tank isn't shit, the only job that should be able to steal hate is a WHM that is spamming the shit outta Divine Seal + Medica II + Medica in an 8-man party. No DPS alive should be stealing hate after the first minute, if not the first 30 seconds of engaging a mob. And good luck taking hate from a WAR that used Unchained/Berserk and has Maim up.

If you say it is the dps's job to hold back

lol.

[Meresgi]

I think the whole "1 item per week!" thing is pretty bullshit, that said though I havnt kept up on the patch too much in the past month but just watched the video. I was impressed that it looks like for the hard mode dungeons they actually swapped around bosses/mobs and such and didn't just take the same place with the same shit and buff everything by (x)%. Extreme primals looks fun and i'm glad we get more main scenario quests as well. I would have liked more things for end game who are at Coil turns, which sucks donkey nuts that Coil and CT seem like they are going to just be tacked on bit by bit in future patches.

Also annoying that some of this shit should have been in game to begin with, reducing the overall impression of the patch when you figure it in. Had the game launched with everything in patch 2.1 however I would say it would have been a very solid launch. Coming on a few months after launch isn't that negative.

[Deadgye]

Like I said, unless your tank physically stops doing shit they should not lose hate after initial engagement. In turn 4 our tanks never lose hate and the DPS certainly don't slow down, and we certainly go all in on Dreadnaughts. If your tank stops doing shit or isn't attacking the mob (trying to split hate between two different types of DPS) then taking hate is easier.

But stealing hate is only a risk at the start, otherwise it just seems like your tanks aren't paying attention or doing shit.

As I said, I have to disagree with you because I don't believe our tank is bad. Do you have a monk in you group who is attacking the dreadnaught immediately as soon as it spawns and who has popped all his buffs and pots at the same time during the first half of the battle? That'd at least give you a direct comparison to us when we were doing it. I can't test it anymore with our group because we've changed up our strategy to downing the knight first.

[Jem]

As I said, I have to disagree with you because I don't believe our tank is bad. Do you have a monk in you group who is attacking the dreadnaught immediately as soon as it spawns and who has popped all his buffs and pots at the same time during the first half of the battle? That'd at least give you a direct comparison to us when we were doing it. I can't test it anymore with our group because we've changed up our strategy to downing the knight first.

Whilst I don't know if the MNK pops all his buffs at once, I do know we have a MNK that goes all out on P3 Dreadnought and has never once pulled hate. The only time anyone has ever tore hate off the MT on that Dread was me as the OT PLD using Sword Oath. I couldn't tell you for P5 Dread as we do the double dread strat and kill the Spinner Rook before starting on the dreads.