FFXIV Random Praise Thread: Time to melee RDM

[Elcura]

attacking the dreadnaught immediately as soon as it spawns and who has popped all his buffs and pots at the same time during the first half of the battle?

There's your answer then which I believe we've all covered already. If you attack right as something spawns, stealing hate isn't a difficult thing to do especially if you go in fully loaded.

[Raen Ryong]

Whilst I don't know if the MNK pops all his buffs at once, I do know we have a MNK that goes all out on P3 Dreadnought and has never once pulled hate. The only time anyone has ever tore hate off the MT on that Dread was me as the OT PLD using Sword Oath. I couldn't tell you for P5 Dread as we do the double dread strat and kill the Spinner Rook before starting on the dreads.

Sword Oath threat is OBSCENE. When I OT on Twintania (granted I wear DPS gear on the right hand side), I catch up with the MT's threat after dealing with the three wyverns so quickly when riding Sword Oath. It's crazy.

[Deadgye]

Whilst I don't know if the MNK pops all his buffs at once, I do know we have a MNK that goes all out on P3 Dreadnought and has never once pulled hate. The only time anyone has ever tore hate off the MT on that Dread was me as the OT PLD using Sword Oath. I couldn't tell you for P5 Dread as we do the double dread strat and kill the Spinner Rook before starting on the dreads.

P3 is a bit different because the damage dealers wait until the spiders are eaten before even bothering to attack, whereas the tank starts building hate up immediately.

There's your answer then which I believe we've all covered already. If you attack right as something spawns, stealing hate isn't a difficult thing to do especially if you go in fully loaded.

He didn't go all out at the very very beginning, but we don't have any spiders to feed so we're all attacking it immediately.

[Raineer]

Sword Oath threat is OBSCENE. When I OT on Twintania (granted I wear DPS gear on the right hand side), I catch up with the MT's threat after dealing with the three wyverns so quickly when riding Sword Oath. It's crazy.

What I've seen is that Sword spikes more quickly at the beginning (translated as - hold off on one Halone combo as OT, then full speed ahead), but then Shield will pull ahead long term. That may not be true if the MT has to deal with mechanics and the OT is just spamming combos as DPS, the MT doesn't get to take a break and stay ahead of OT - the gap isn't that much.

I'm astonished at how much threat it still generates though. The majority of the hate comes from the combo abilities, so you can just straight DPS in Sword Oath and likely be WELL ahead of the DPS.

edit: the one time I've found I'm truly poor at holding hate is when I forget to pop any oath following a death. Shield and Sword are close, but no oath is miles behind either of them.

[Carth]

Shield Oath is a +20% Enmity increase (0.8 x 1.5). Sword Oath doesn't have any enmity multipliers by itself, but the damage generated from Auto-Attacks along with Fight or Flight keeps it extremely close. Shield Oath should barely stay ahead though.

[Lyltia]

I've had a few arguments over this in game and just want to take the opportunity to clear it up while we're sort of on the topic. Sword is DPS+25% before auto attack potency, shield is enmity +20%; therefore, sword oath holds better threat if you're spamming combos. Is this a true fact or am I misinformed? Pretty much anytime I'm DPSing as OT I have to hold back or I end up MT. Happens every time on T4/P3 and T5.

[Raldo]

Wait, what? Sword Oath is just labeled as an increase in auto-attack damage. I mean, I guess you could say it's DPS+25% compared to a Shield Oath user, but that's a strange way to think about things. Yes, you're pulling hate because you're not incurring the damage loss of Shield Oath, and the enmity bonus on Shield Oath kinda sucks. SE probably looked at their 20% numbers and didn't even realize that their math was off.

[Raineer]

I've had a few arguments over this in game and just want to take the opportunity to clear it up while we're sort of on the topic. Sword is DPS+25% before auto attack potency, shield is enmity +20%; therefore, sword oath holds better threat if you're spamming combos. Is this a true fact or am I misinformed? Pretty much anytime I'm DPSing as OT I have to hold back or I end up MT. Happens every time on T4/P3 and T5.

Sword Oath is +25% DPS over Shield Oath, true - since Shield Oath is -25% DPS from no oath. The way you word it makes it sound like "Sword oath is a 25% DPS boost over no oath", which is not true.

It's well known that the two are quite close in overall threat. I don't know what modifiers are truly where and if any tooltips can be trusted all that much, but that fact is clear to anyone who has OT'd as a paladin.

[AidenCarby]

Cleared t4, won healing ring....today was a good day.

[Voyage1970]

I've had a few arguments over this in game and just want to take the opportunity to clear it up while we're sort of on the topic. Sword is DPS+25% before auto attack potency, shield is enmity +20%; therefore, sword oath holds better threat if you're spamming combos. Is this a true fact or am I misinformed? Pretty much anytime I'm DPSing as OT I have to hold back or I end up MT. Happens every time on T4/P3 and T5.

Kinda late but, Sword Oath should be about a 16.4% increase to DPS from no stance assuming you don't include Shield Swipe.

Halone combo averages out to about 203.33 potency per GCD. Circle of Scorn adds 25 potency per GCD (250/25s=10/s=25/2.5s) and Spirit's Within adds 25 potency as well if used at full HP every time (for the sake of argument I set it to 200 potency since if we're talking about Sword Oath vs Shield Oath for hate/tank purposes you will not be able to use full power Spirit's every time its up). At 200 potency Spirit's Within adds about 16.66 potency per GCD. All Auto-attacks are normalized to 83.33 potency per GCD and Sword Oath adds an extra 50 potency to every auto-attack (which for Curtana+1 is every 2.32s so 50/2.32*2.5=53.87) so Sword Oath adds 53.87 potency per GCD.

No Stance you are looking at 328.33 potency per GCD and Sword Oath increases this to 382.2 potency per GCD equaling ~16.4% increase to DPS. If you account for a full powered Spirit's Within the increase drops very slightly down to ~16%.

[Corrderio]

Finding people in the game that don't have their head up their ass. It's nice seeing there are still decent people in the game that don't piss and moan after a wipe and instead pick themselves up and learn from their mistakes instead of ragequitting on the spot.

[Jaybar]

After about 3 solid weeks of Coil hunting (off and on mind - we have odd schedules) and we got T1 and T2 down to a solid 1 shot easy and are now getting to Phase 6 on T4 without a sweat. This week should prove promising now that we can tweak our Phase 6 order. We were doing MT holding both Juggernauts, Limit Break the Rook and kill it, then back to first Juggernaut. This was causing issues for the OT because he couldn't survive tanking two statues and two spiders (he's a backup with full DL with NQ relics - our regular is a little better geared with some allagan/myth) so we're going to try popping off the Soldier after the Rook is down then switch back to the old Juggernaut since our MT was having no issue keeping both unbuffed Juggernauts from raping his face.

So exciting!

[Voyage1970]

Just a suggestion but you can Kite the Soldier/Knight in the last phase pretty easily and just feed the 2 spiders to the fresh Dread. Use the time when you get pulled in from Electromagnetism to switch directions and you'll only get hit every now and then since they have to stop to do their little spinning Auto attack animation.

[Jaybar]

Just a suggestion but you can Kite the Soldier/Knight in the last phase pretty easily and just feed the 2 spiders to the fresh Dread. Use the time when you get pulled in from Electromagnetism to switch directions and you'll only get hit every now and then since they have to stop to do their little spinning Auto attack animation.

I think we brought that up but we were having trouble in Phase 5 doing enough damage to the first Juggernaut. We feared that a buffed Juggernaut might be too much for him since we'd be on the first one a bit longer than we want.

[Tyrath]

You don't feed the juggernaut till after the first one is dead. The offtank kites the soldier/knights and bugs in that time. Then feeds the last juggernaut once the previous one is dead.

[Jem]

If he's the OT he should pretty much have all his defensive CD's up for Phase 6. So it could be that he was blowing too many of his CD's on earlier waves out of inexperience.

Phase 3 needs no defensive CD's as OT, Phase 4 is the same but you can use Rampart and it be up for 6, Phase 5 is just a Soldier/Knight so he could get away with nothing but if you do the kited method then you may as well blow Bulwark here. That should leave him with Sentinel, Rampart, Awareness, Hallowed (plus Convalescence too).

Sidenote but Tempered Will should prevent draw-in if you're kiting. I've not tried it but I can't see why it wouldn't.

[Jaybar]

You don't feed the juggernaut till after the first one is dead. The offtank kites the soldier/knights and bugs in that time. Then feeds the last juggernaut once the previous one is dead.

Ah this makes more sense. I thought previous post meant to feed right away.

I am quite shocked though that this was our OT's first time in Coil. Period. Picked up on the strat quickly but just need the tweaking I see here in these past couple posts. For the Phase 5 Soldier I typically pick it up and tank it as DRG on the spot because the Knight is usually running towards MT and the OT needs to grab him from range. Same usually goes for the 2nd phase Soldier - I rip hate at the beginning trying to shed the Stoneskin asap for the stun.

[Ratatapa]

You don't feed the juggernaut till after the first one is dead. The offtank kites the soldier/knights and bugs in that time. Then feeds the last juggernaut once the previous one is dead.

Wut?


When p6 pop ,we LB the rook while we feed the spiders to the 3rd dread so MT has Drea 2 (unbuffed) and Dread 3 buffeD)

At that time MT HG while people kill 2nd dread HG should come off about the same time as dread2 dies

[Jaybar]

Wut?


When p6 pop ,we LB the rook while we feed the spiders to the 3rd dread so MT has Drea 2 (unbuffed) and Dread 3 buffeD)

At that time MT HG while people kill 2nd dread HG should come off about the same time as dread2 dies

Might work well if the unbuffed Juggernaut took a good deal of damage during Phase 5, but for our group sometimes we get screwed on DPS when Statues pop and we lose time for Juggernaut. I think we got it now after our last wipe so we'll see if the other method works better.

[Jem]

Here's what I do as OT for Turn 4

Phase 1 - Sword Oath and just hit stuff. Run into position for P2 when nearly dead

Phase 2 - Shield Oath on the run. Flash in between popped mobs. Bulwark and position for blocks. Fight or Flight. Rampart and Conv although half the time I forget about conv.

Phase 3 - Sword Oath and wail away on the back of it. Fight or Flight should be back up midway through.

Phase 4 - Shield Oath and grab far spinner rook, spiders will come with. Rampart and DD away on rook. Run to middle after rook dies ready for P5

Phase 5 - Tag mob in middle and shield lob the mob that pops far away whilst running towards it. MT takes Dread. After they are both dead just stand in middle and shield lob Dread until P6. Fight or Flight is used on this Phase too

Phase 6 - Tag statues and spiders. Usually DDs tag a spider and bring to me if it looks like it may wander off to a Dread before I tag it. Kill order is LB Rook > Old Dread > Statues > Feed both spiders > New Dread. Cooldown wise I have everything available for the 4 mobs on P6. I sword oath after I feed the spiders.

Only time there is ever a nontank taking hits is momentarily whilst collecting spiders and presumably when the MNK LBs the Rook.