Dragoon discussion/details thread

[Null]

I'm not sure why head would be desirable (besides for looks) allagan drops from t2 and is considered better statwise

Head drops from t4, hands are t2. Anyway, as far as what is better then what I'd say.

Head: Allagan > AF2 Allagan is T4
Body: AF2 > Allagan Allagan is T1
Hands : AF2 > Allagan Allagan is T2
Legs: AF2 > Allagan Allagan is T1
Feet: Allagan > AF2 Allagan is T5

So plan according to what you and your shell are able to farm easily and get drops on. Because as stated the stats are not a big enough difference to waste mythos on something you can easily have allagan for. Bracelets and Feet are both T5 so those are pretty good to spend mythos on as it will be a lil while longer before most are farming that. As for feet, I have the points to buy them but I think Darksteel melded is also a good alternative. Same with bracelet, grypo is a good alternative if you don't want to waste points on jewlery.

Truth is I don't want to spend so much on DRG in the way of mythos. If you are running coil on a weekly basis with drg as your main and expecting to lot on gear then you will gear up soon enough. Its not like you need the af2 gear to farm coil, 1-4 can be farmed easily enough in darklight. Can save your mythos for another class.

[matic]

eh i bought helm back before best progression order was common knowledge, and I can't really say i regret it. looks sweet and gets me to 473 acc for coil, only real downside was having to wait longer to +1 relic.

[Niiro]

If you are running coil on a weekly basis with drg as your main and expecting to lot on gear then you will gear up soon enough.

I'd just like to point out that you have an 11% chance of seeing any given item from any given chest.

You can only run once per week.

That's a long potential wait even assuming that the RNG gods are relatively evenhanded.

[matic]

we've been getting almost exclusively tank/bard stuff aside from the one belt i nabbed, so yeah YMMV

[Null]

Yeah I agree, you won't always get the drops you want. But also I don't know many parties that roll with more then one drg. So if a drg piece drops your chances of getting the item are higher then most people in the party for the classes they are going. In the end if you are going drg main, you might end up gearing at a decent rate. And quite frankly coil is more about knowing a decent straight and executing it correctly then being geared in more coil gear and af2. Which is why I am now just gearing other classes with af2 and running coil on drg.
But everything comes down to preference and what you feel you can accomplish with your time or group of people that run the events.

[Jamison]

I meant to jump in this conversation earlier but I've had a heck of a day.

The BiS lists you see floating around, while technically "correct", are almost more of an exercise than a required set-up. Those lists are extremely mathematical -- where can you get the X amount of accuracy you need while giving up the least amount of DPS via those choices. There are many ways to get to 470 accuracy, many of which are not significantly worse than BiS. Others may be a bit below that but IMO are still completely valid as choices considering the RNG factor in gear acquisition. The reality is BiS is not necessarily best by any huge margin.

If you have the +1 weapon, and use food, you need to get +70-75 accuracy from gear. Get it however you can. Allagan legs are a very powerful part of that equation. When you have multiple paths to your accuracy goals, do the math to figure out which combinations cost you the least in DPS. Also keep in mind there will be events where 470 accuracy is too much, so having other options that trade ACC for DPS could potentially be a benefit.

I haven't done the math (yet) but it's possible using food for DPS stats while getting ACC from gear is better than the opposite. I'm guessing though that the difference would be pretty small.

[Tyrath]

Okay, I need help figuring out my transition from AK gear to Darklight.

I am currently at 473 acc, 472 crit, 223 Determination. I currently have full DL accessories (except 1 peltast ring) and then full AK in main slots. Now my dilemma is, I seem to either be losing a bit of accuracy and lots of crit rate for a couple str points and some determination no matter what piece I upgrade. I'm not really sure what path to take with the swaps >_<

I have Peltast helm, mitts, legs and Hetairos body and feet. Anyone got any suggestions?

[Jamison]

If I'm running the numbers correctly, it's a practically a statistical dead heat if it's better to use ACC food or DTR/Crit. Basically compared to a pure BiS list, food is better suited to DTR/Crit. If you consider you have 12 slots to play with (not including weapon, but counting food as a slot) food is in position #7 for the most efficient place to find accuracy. In a perfect BiS world, you'd use slots 1-5 to get ACC and no where else. So in very, very loose terms, if you are using 3 or more non-BiS alternatives for ACC, food becomes a statistically better choice to get accuracy from.

I've got to stress though we're talking extremely small differences here, and IMO you should still simply get accuracy wherever you can (food or not) with a goal of trying to use the more efficient gear choices when possible.

-------

Edit:

From the stats and spreadsheet provided in the Rotation Reborn thread, it looks like the "best" vs "worst" ACC choices only provide a difference of about 1%. I'm surprised how small that is but then again there's not really any content yet that relies on eking out every last ounce of DPS to that degree. Also it looks like the stat weights the theorycrafters use changed a tiny bit, but again with differences so small it doesn't really make any effective difference.

[Niiro]

Okay, I need help figuring out my transition from AK gear to Darklight.

I am currently at 473 acc, 472 crit, 223 Determination. I currently have full DL accessories (except 1 peltast ring) and then full AK in main slots. Now my dilemma is, I seem to either be losing a bit of accuracy and lots of crit rate for a couple str points and some determination no matter what piece I upgrade. I'm not really sure what path to take with the swaps >_<

I have Peltast helm, mitts, legs and Hetairos body and feet. Anyone got any suggestions?

You don't need ACC at all unless you're in the coil.

Even then you don't need 470 until the higher turns.

[Jamison]

Okay, I need help figuring out my transition from AK gear to Darklight.

I am currently at 473 acc, 472 crit, 223 Determination. I currently have full DL accessories (except 1 peltast ring) and then full AK in main slots. Now my dilemma is, I seem to either be losing a bit of accuracy and lots of crit rate for a couple str points and some determination no matter what piece I upgrade. I'm not really sure what path to take with the swaps >_<

I have Peltast helm, mitts, legs and Hetairos body and feet. Anyone got any suggestions?

You don't need ACC at all unless you're in the coil.

Even then you don't need 470 until the higher turns.

^

Also, don't forget that the STR to CRIT ratio is 6.5:1. STR to DTR is 4.6:1. DTR is more valuable than CRIT. A modest increase of STR will typically outweigh any loss of a secondary stat

[Tyrath]

Right, well I was trying to gear up for coil. I was more wondering about losing out on all that crit for some Det and a couple STR and if that was worth it?

I guess my plan is to do Head -> gloves -> legs. Do AF2 body. And see what happens with Allagan.

[Niiro]

Also, don't forget that the STR to CRIT ratio is 6.5:1. STR to DTR is 4.6:1. DTR is more valuable than CRIT.

What are you getting this from?

[Arvin]

Edit Im a retard it just got posted

[matic]

Right, well I was trying to gear up for coil. I was more wondering about losing out on all that crit for some Det and a couple STR and if that was worth it?

I guess my plan is to do Head -> gloves -> legs. Do AF2 body. And see what happens with Allagan.

all the DL pieces are better than AK, even if marginally. For legs and body you'll be trading 48 crit for 8 STR and some DET (cant remember how much atm), and it is worth the trade. I used to think het body was better b/c of the crit but that was before I saw the stat weights, and before I actually tried out both. Also, this spreadsheethttps://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...wRm5xQ3c#gid=1 seems pretty spot on and I found it helpful.

[Tyrath]

I'm still probably not gonna get the DL body though. I'm not one to spam philos all the time and I should have my Wyrm body before I get a chance to cap out all slots with DL.

[Jamison]

What are you getting this from?

The Rotation Reborn thread from the OF; and the number crunching and spreadsheets done by Ayvar and EasyModeX.

[Akiyama]

I'm still probably not gonna get the DL body though. I'm not one to spam philos all the time and I should have my Wyrm body before I get a chance to cap out all slots with DL.

Get DL Body if you have excess Philo tomes. That's about it, especially if you see yourself getting your Wyrm body pretty quick.

[Akiyama]

Bam. Allagan Pants get. Only lacking the helm (turn 4), ring (turn 1) and boots (turn 5) now. :< Can't get boots obviously. And then myth wise Im missing the belt (getting with myth), ring, and uh.. yeah. That's it.

[Jaybar]

Pre patch I was doing full buffed Full Thrust crits for about 1034, now I'm doing a good 1200+ Something else get buffed that I'm not noticing?

[Kyte]

I think you should read the patch notes.