Dragoon discussion/details thread

[Mabubeezareel]

The problem with Jump is that it still returns you to the spot that you used it before allowing you to move again, whereas Dragonfire and Spineshatter both leave in your new position, thereby allowing you to move the split second that the move animations connects. While the animation for Jump is definitely faster, it's still super risky to use because of that mostly worthless mechanic of returning you back to the spot that you used the ability.

[Niiro]

The best thing one can do is fire off Power Surge 1 to 2 GCDs before you plan to jump.

This is what I've begun doing.

For example, was doing some Garuda EX before and I'd open with:

Heavy -> Leg Sweep -> Phleb -> IR -> Impulse -> Surge -> Disembowel -> Jump -> Chaos

The general idea being to alternate GCD/non-GCD as much as possible (and sync it so Jump gets the damage bonus from Disembowel).

[Jamison]

This is what I've begun doing.

For example, was doing some Garuda EX before and I'd open with:

Heavy -> Leg Sweep -> Phleb -> IR -> Impulse -> Surge -> Disembowel -> Jump -> Chaos

The general idea being to alternate GCD/non-GCD as much as possible (and sync it so Jump gets the damage bonus from Disembowel).

That's very close to what I do. I'm in the (now obsolete) habit of doing Jump after Chaos because the animation clipping used to waste less time that way.

[Mabubeezareel]

The general idea being to alternate GCD/non-GCD as much as possible (and sync it so Jump gets the damage bonus from Disembowel).

Exactly. Anytime you're using two ore more non-GCD abilities in succession, you're pretty much dropping DPS. I've got my rotation down to a science now:

PT (as I'm running in) -> PT (if I have enough time for a second one) -> HT -> Leg Sweep -> Phleb -> IR -> ID -> B4B -> DBowel -> Power Surge -> CT -> Jump -> TT -> Spineshatter -> Life Surge -> FT -> Dragonfire -> Leg Sweep -> HT -> Phleb -> etc

If everything goes off without a hitch, I'll have JUST enough time to get in a buffed HT before the original wears off.

[Manako]

For Titan extreme I use Spinshatter/Dragonfire after landslides or breaking the healer from the goal to get back to titan asap, we kill fast enough that I am able to alternate with them not being off cooldown for very long. I'll do a boosted Jump when I have time, either during tumults or while dodging landslides, better than standing around waiting for the move to go off :/

I'm able to open the fight with Spinshatter, flank for heavy thrust and then open my disembowel combo before his first landslide. When I run the fight on my whm it seems like a lot of dragoons wait for after landslide to put up heavy thrust...

[Seravi Edalborez]

I'm able to open the fight with Spinshatter, flank for heavy thrust and then open my disembowel combo before his first landslide. When I run the fight on my whm it seems like a lot of dragoons wait for after landslide to put up heavy thrust...

Totally need to do this. If I open with HT>Phleb>rear combo like any other fight, he's already turning around for that first landslide. Need to just put Phleb somewhere later.

[Qeomash]

I usually am starting the combo right as he turns to landslide, so I just take that into account and automatically move towards the tank to start it.

[Xanthe]

Totally need to do this. If I open with HT>Phleb>rear combo like any other fight, he's already turning around for that first landslide. Need to just put Phleb somewhere later.

H IDC P TTT | H TTT P IDC | H TTT P TTT | repeat. That's "all" you need to do.

[Niiro]

There's abbreviations and then there's secret code, wtf.

[Seravi Edalborez]

Phleb usually after HT, just delay it 3 actions on Titan. I keep that bar up as a visual reminder. Kind of helpful.

[Jamison]

H IDC P TTT | H TTT P IDC | H TTT P TTT | repeat. That's "all" you need to do.

I believe a lot of people do Heavy Thrust and Phleb together first. It's a minuscule DPS loss and a bit easier of a rotation to remember. Titan EX is the first encounter where the timing is such that you can get screwed up because of it. Doing Phlebotomize then Heavy Thrust also isn't terrible on pulls because it often takes that extra two seconds to get the mob into position, but again on Titan EX that simply isn't possible.

[gaogaostegosaurus]

H IDC P TTT | H TTT P IDC | H TTT P TTT | repeat. That's "all" you need to do.

I tried repeating that aloud and ended up spitting all over my monitor

thanks Obama

[Xanthe]

I used to do Phlebotomize immediately after Heavy Thrust, but I've found the rotation I listed to be more efficient in the long haul (credit to EasyModeX on the OF). It keeps all buffs and debuffs up full-time and gets the most damaging weapon skills out first, while only clipping 1-2 seconds of Chaos Thrust. Putting Phlebotomize after Chaos Thrust also increases its damage output. Of course a perfect rotation only works in a vacuum and on tank and spank fights. It's more important to be aware of the status of important buffs and debuffs and be able to keep them up while dodging everything. Sometimes that means skipping your Full Thrust combo and starting over, or using your Chaos Thrust combo on multiple targets instead. I often find that if I'm only dodging a single ability rather than several chained abilities, I can still maintain the rotation. In burn situations where DoTs won't be realized, only using your Full Thrust combo becomes better. In short, do what works best for the situation.

[chichicha]

H IDC P TTT | H TTT P IDC | H TTT P TTT | repeat. That's "all" you need to do.

Really no idea about this code...

[Jamison]

Really no idea about this code...

Heavy, Chaos Thrust combo, Phlebotomize, True Trust Combo

Heavy, True Trust Combo, Phlebotomize, Chaos Thrust combo

Heavy, True Trust Combo, Phlebotomize, True Trust Combo

I used to do Phlebotomize immediately after Heavy Thrust, but I've found the rotation I listed to be more efficient in the long haul (credit to EasyModeX on the OF). It keeps all buffs and debuffs up full-time and gets the most damaging weapon skills out first, while only clipping 1-2 seconds of Chaos Thrust. Putting Phlebotomize after Chaos Thrust also increases its damage output. Of course a perfect rotation only works in a vacuum and on tank and spank fights. It's more important to be aware of the status of important buffs and debuffs and be able to keep them up while dodging everything. Sometimes that means skipping your Full Thrust combo and starting over, or using your Chaos Thrust combo on multiple targets instead. I often find that if I'm only dodging a single ability rather than several chained abilities, I can still maintain the rotation. In burn situations where DoTs won't be realized, only using your Full Thrust combo becomes better. In short, do what works best for the situation.

There's no doubt...

H IDC P TTT
H TTT P ICD
H TTT P TTT

... is the best DPS combo. Bunching H & P together is a simplification of the combo that only costs 1-2 DPS (that's DPS for only GCD abilities, working in OGCD only lessens the advantage). Titan EX is the first time the simple rotation is somewhat impractical to pull off because of mechanics making you dodge. If you can keep good DoT uptime, only the very first Phelbotomize is not fully buffed but as you say these fights are not in a vacuum..

Chaos Thrust (unbuffed) can actually be clipped insanely early and yet be the most effective combo to throw (which is kind of sad and dumb) but the point is if you are about to start a combo, and there's 10 seconds or less on Chaos's DoT, then do it. The logic for a fight where you break away from the boss becomes pretty simple:

- Is Heavy Thrust down (or within 7-8 seconds of being down)? --- reapply
- Is Phlebotomize down (or within 7-8 seconds of being down)? --- reapply
- Is Chaos Thrust DoT under 10 seconds remaining, or down? --- reapply combo
- Else, do TTT combo

(I say under 7-8 seconds loosely and could be wrong. In a controlled fight where you don't break away you'll naturally reapply Heavy and Phelb with about 1 second remaining. When do you do break away you'll need that time if you want to get in a full combo before the buff/debuff wears as well.)

[Fairy-Killer]

The rotation Xanthe posted is the best rotation, and it's super easy to remember. On Titan Extreme, I normally start the combo over after jumps and sets of bombs as HT has usually run off by then. I sit around 250-300 DPS with it, with dodging everything and moving between gaols and Titan. If something sits still, like Atomos, I can sit in the range of 350-400 DPS.

[Niiro]

- Is Heavy Thrust down (or within 7-8 seconds of being down)? --- reapply

I'm not really seeing this one, as long as you're not forced away from the mob for those 7-8s you can fit in a combo.

Your next Heavy won't have the bonus from the previous Heavy but you should be able to do a Chaos or Full combo before that 7-8s is up.

[Xanthe]

Jamison pretty much nailed it. On those breakaways, I'll also try to get a Phlebotomize off on my way out as well, but the logic is still the same.

[Jamison]

I'm not really seeing this one, as long as you're not forced away from the mob for those 7-8s you can fit in a combo.

Your next Heavy won't have the bonus from the previous Heavy but you should be able to do a Chaos or Full combo before that 7-8s is up.

That was my point. If you have the time to get in a combo, do it. If you are under the time it will take to do the combo, reapply Heavy first.

[Seravi Edalborez]

I was curious if there was an established Allagan Spear BiS out there post-patch. Google turns up this but doesn't seem to account for primal accessories, so I dunno if I'd swap out anything for one of those.